Tip Reliability
08-06-2002, 02:21 PM
#1
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tip Reliability
Just searched the old topics on this subject and could not find much. Any comments or resourses I can consult on tip reliability -- are there repair issues? Is the automatic, albeit a bit slower, less expensive to operate vs. a manual? Thanks
08-07-2002, 03:31 AM
#2
Jeff:
Tips seem to be somewhat rare, at least on web site posts. I don't know what percentage of them made up the body of production runs.
I looked at Tip when I was hunting a 911. I like them as far as automatics go. To get research info, I ended up calling several local shops for opinions on any issues. About the only thing anyone said bad about them was to make sure the fluid has been changed. Apparently some tip owners ignore this, and it can lead to problems. Most shops reported them as being reliable, but so are the other manual transaxles in the C2 and C4.
As for repair costs, I would have to guess the tip is costs more to repair since any automatic is more complicated than a manual. My real concern here wouldn't be the cost of a repair, but finding someone who has worked on them enough to have decent experience repairing them. An owner may be forced to deal with a dealership only, which will almost always cost more than an independent.
Just my opinions. Hope they help.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Tips seem to be somewhat rare, at least on web site posts. I don't know what percentage of them made up the body of production runs.
I looked at Tip when I was hunting a 911. I like them as far as automatics go. To get research info, I ended up calling several local shops for opinions on any issues. About the only thing anyone said bad about them was to make sure the fluid has been changed. Apparently some tip owners ignore this, and it can lead to problems. Most shops reported them as being reliable, but so are the other manual transaxles in the C2 and C4.
As for repair costs, I would have to guess the tip is costs more to repair since any automatic is more complicated than a manual. My real concern here wouldn't be the cost of a repair, but finding someone who has worked on them enough to have decent experience repairing them. An owner may be forced to deal with a dealership only, which will almost always cost more than an independent.
Just my opinions. Hope they help.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
08-07-2002, 03:39 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
Jeff,
I am a Tip Lover, so know that my comments are biased. That said, the tip is very reliable from what I have read (Guru Anderson...). As to "a bit slower,"...yes of the line in 1st, but once rolling about the same as the 5 speed. In fact some reports of speed range acceleration claim it is faster (30 to 50 mph is quicker than a C2, and a 3.3 turbo!). There are several great road tests reports on John Miles site for you to read about Tips. This the Must See site for the 964 learner.
<a href="http://www.porsche964.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.porsche964.co.uk/</a>
"less expensive to operate" ...well this is a Big issue. Just do a search on Chutch & Dual Mass Flywheel on Rennlist or "Smart Group 964" (Find it through John's site) and see what you'll be "missing" as a Tip owner.
I'll close with this common advice, Test drive both & think about how you will use the Porsche. If you like the conveneince - you'll also love the Low maint cost. <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
I am a Tip Lover, so know that my comments are biased. That said, the tip is very reliable from what I have read (Guru Anderson...). As to "a bit slower,"...yes of the line in 1st, but once rolling about the same as the 5 speed. In fact some reports of speed range acceleration claim it is faster (30 to 50 mph is quicker than a C2, and a 3.3 turbo!). There are several great road tests reports on John Miles site for you to read about Tips. This the Must See site for the 964 learner.
<a href="http://www.porsche964.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.porsche964.co.uk/</a>
"less expensive to operate" ...well this is a Big issue. Just do a search on Chutch & Dual Mass Flywheel on Rennlist or "Smart Group 964" (Find it through John's site) and see what you'll be "missing" as a Tip owner.
I'll close with this common advice, Test drive both & think about how you will use the Porsche. If you like the conveneince - you'll also love the Low maint cost. <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
08-07-2002, 04:56 AM
#4
Addict
Lead Rennlist
Technical Advisor
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Lead Rennlist
Technical Advisor
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Dear Jeff,
In the past four years on various forums I have never had to help anyone fix their 964 Tip. Now a couple we had to fit booster rockets to, so they could keep up.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
In the past four years on various forums I have never had to help anyone fix their 964 Tip. Now a couple we had to fit booster rockets to, so they could keep up.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
08-07-2002, 05:46 AM
#5
Instructor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Jeff,
I have a Tip and would definitely buy another, if I had to buy again. Before I bought my car I didn't know too much either about Tip's. So I called many Porsche service specialists here in the UK and asked their opinion, the verdict was that Tip's very rarely give trouble and very few specialists had even opened them up for repair. I must say the gear change is silky smooth and very quick.
If you have medium to high traffic congestion where you drive then a Tip is the answer (remember you have the option of "manual" change as well if you prefer on the Tip box).
I drove a good couple of 964's (manual & Tip) before buying mine and would without a doubt buy another Tip.
Keep in mind the cost of a clutch and DMF (Dual Mass flywheel) replacement on a manual, which runs into Big Bucks...
But as everyone here I'm sure would agree you need to test drive both and make your own mind up. Keep in mind test drive more than 1 manual as to gauge the "feel" of the clutch as the first one I drove was very heavy & rough.
Cheers
Gary '91C2 (with working aircon!!
)
I have a Tip and would definitely buy another, if I had to buy again. Before I bought my car I didn't know too much either about Tip's. So I called many Porsche service specialists here in the UK and asked their opinion, the verdict was that Tip's very rarely give trouble and very few specialists had even opened them up for repair. I must say the gear change is silky smooth and very quick.
If you have medium to high traffic congestion where you drive then a Tip is the answer (remember you have the option of "manual" change as well if you prefer on the Tip box).
I drove a good couple of 964's (manual & Tip) before buying mine and would without a doubt buy another Tip.
Keep in mind the cost of a clutch and DMF (Dual Mass flywheel) replacement on a manual, which runs into Big Bucks...
But as everyone here I'm sure would agree you need to test drive both and make your own mind up. Keep in mind test drive more than 1 manual as to gauge the "feel" of the clutch as the first one I drove was very heavy & rough.
Cheers
Gary '91C2 (with working aircon!!
)
08-07-2002, 07:24 AM
#6
Drifting
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Leeds, where I have run into this many lamp
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Jeff
Reliabilty
did the same research as others- rang alot of independent Porsche workshops - only one had ever needed to work on one. Bullet proof was the unanimous verdict. When I bought mine I had them do a gearbox filter and oil change (about £90), just to be sure.
Driveability
Only you can answer the personal question of whether you like it. They are marginally slower than manuals because they only have four speeds and thus their ratios are slightly more 'spaced apart' - first is just not as steep as first in the 5-speed manual.
I drove both manual & tip before I bought and quite frankly the tip still throws you (and envious passengers!) well into the back of the seat.
If you are not going to track the car regularly, you can live without the slightly steeper first gear - the ease of driving in traffic is fantastic (little tip here (no pun!) - leave the box in "3" in traffic so that you always pull away in first - upto 60 mph 3rd gear is fine)
Look out for what feels like a 'phantom' gearshift in 2nd and 3rd at about 3000 rpm under gentle acceleration. It is the torque converter locking up - not a gearbox fault. This doesn't happen under heavy acceleration as it locks up unnoticed.
Hope this helps.
Reliabilty
did the same research as others- rang alot of independent Porsche workshops - only one had ever needed to work on one. Bullet proof was the unanimous verdict. When I bought mine I had them do a gearbox filter and oil change (about £90), just to be sure.
Driveability
Only you can answer the personal question of whether you like it. They are marginally slower than manuals because they only have four speeds and thus their ratios are slightly more 'spaced apart' - first is just not as steep as first in the 5-speed manual.
I drove both manual & tip before I bought and quite frankly the tip still throws you (and envious passengers!) well into the back of the seat.
If you are not going to track the car regularly, you can live without the slightly steeper first gear - the ease of driving in traffic is fantastic (little tip here (no pun!) - leave the box in "3" in traffic so that you always pull away in first - upto 60 mph 3rd gear is fine)
Look out for what feels like a 'phantom' gearshift in 2nd and 3rd at about 3000 rpm under gentle acceleration. It is the torque converter locking up - not a gearbox fault. This doesn't happen under heavy acceleration as it locks up unnoticed.
Hope this helps.
08-07-2002, 07:54 PM
#7
Intermediate
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Virginia
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[quote]Originally posted by johnfm:
<strong>
Look out for what feels like a 'phantom' gearshift in 2nd and 3rd at about 3000 rpm under gentle acceleration. It is the torque converter locking up - not a gearbox fault. This doesn't happen under heavy acceleration as it locks up unnoticed..</strong><hr></blockquote>
So, John, what's it mean that the torque converter is locking up? My Tip does the phantom shift, as does a friend of mine's 993 Tip. Since they both did this, I assumed this was a normal Tip phenomenon. Is this a serious problem? How do I fix it?
Thanks
<strong>
Look out for what feels like a 'phantom' gearshift in 2nd and 3rd at about 3000 rpm under gentle acceleration. It is the torque converter locking up - not a gearbox fault. This doesn't happen under heavy acceleration as it locks up unnoticed..</strong><hr></blockquote>
So, John, what's it mean that the torque converter is locking up? My Tip does the phantom shift, as does a friend of mine's 993 Tip. Since they both did this, I assumed this was a normal Tip phenomenon. Is this a serious problem? How do I fix it?
Thanks
Trending Topics
08-07-2002, 08:39 PM
#8
Drifting
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Leeds, where I have run into this many lamp
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Nothing to fix - its supposed to lock up. I won't embarass myself with lack of knowledge, but a torque converter acts a bit like an automatic clutch, allowing "slip" when the car is stationary in drive (yet the engine is running)
See:
<a href="http://www.howstuffworks.com/torque-converter.htm" target="_blank">web page</a>
Now, as far as I know the porsche tip torque converter is able to mechanically lock so that you hae full drive and no slip - so that when you stick the right foot in, your not losing loads of HP heating up oil!!
So, in summary - don't fix it!!
See:
<a href="http://www.howstuffworks.com/torque-converter.htm" target="_blank">web page</a>
Now, as far as I know the porsche tip torque converter is able to mechanically lock so that you hae full drive and no slip - so that when you stick the right foot in, your not losing loads of HP heating up oil!!
So, in summary - don't fix it!!
08-08-2002, 02:48 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
Adrian, ???
"Now a couple we had to fit booster rockets to, so they could keep up." (are you baiting me?)
I seldom have trouble keeping it up ... that is ... my C2 Tip, with other Porsches. Would admit your C4 will out do me in the wet, but that extra weight you have over a Tip - about 70 kg?, could make the difference and they would be matched in a 30 mph to 90 mph sprint. I have read some test reports that state the top speed of a Tip is 3 Mph faster that a C4? So .. as Porsche states - for the average driver in daily usage - the Tip is just a "Quick".
..... but you knew that <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />
"Now a couple we had to fit booster rockets to, so they could keep up." (are you baiting me?)
I seldom have trouble keeping it up ... that is ... my C2 Tip, with other Porsches. Would admit your C4 will out do me in the wet, but that extra weight you have over a Tip - about 70 kg?, could make the difference and they would be matched in a 30 mph to 90 mph sprint. I have read some test reports that state the top speed of a Tip is 3 Mph faster that a C4? So .. as Porsche states - for the average driver in daily usage - the Tip is just a "Quick".
..... but you knew that <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />
08-08-2002, 03:29 AM
#10
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have the phantom shift as well but I only notice it in second gear. It is actually lower, like at around 2,400 it shifts and goes down about 150 rpm, so nothing big. My wife drove me crazy about it when we first got the car, so I changed the oil and the filter but this did not change anything. We got used to it and the 993 does it as well. Other than that, too much slippage in first gear, you can just forget first gear (does not apply to the other gears, so I guess its programed, would love to have this taken out). When you shift manually and slow down to stop the car automatically goes into 2nd. Great! About 1 second slower from 0 to 60 than manual but much easier to perform and only because of that stupid slippage in first. My wife and me are very happy with the tip and we both use the automatic and manual mode all the time.
08-08-2002, 04:55 AM
#11
Addict
Lead Rennlist
Technical Advisor
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Lead Rennlist
Technical Advisor
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Dear Jack,
No I was not baiting you it was a joke. I take very little notice of what is actually written in these magazines. The real world is much better. My C4 in its current form weighs in somewhat lighter than your Tip. Tyres and driver skill also play a significant role in all of this stuff as well. Head to head in the real world my 964 C4 knocked over a 996 Carrera Tip. Yes we had a drag in controlled conditions on private property. Right outside my office actually. I do not recommend such things by the way unless they are controlled and done in a safe environment.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
PS: I have never driven a 964 Tip so I have no knowledge of how they go in a straight line. I would need to drive one myself to make an informed opinion. 964 Tips are terribly rare in these parts. Like I have never seen one.
No I was not baiting you it was a joke. I take very little notice of what is actually written in these magazines. The real world is much better. My C4 in its current form weighs in somewhat lighter than your Tip. Tyres and driver skill also play a significant role in all of this stuff as well. Head to head in the real world my 964 C4 knocked over a 996 Carrera Tip. Yes we had a drag in controlled conditions on private property. Right outside my office actually. I do not recommend such things by the way unless they are controlled and done in a safe environment.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
PS: I have never driven a 964 Tip so I have no knowledge of how they go in a straight line. I would need to drive one myself to make an informed opinion. 964 Tips are terribly rare in these parts. Like I have never seen one.
08-09-2002, 02:59 AM
#12
Rennlist Member
Adrian,
I caught the joke ... and hope you took my reply likewise ... enjoy any jousting about Tips.
Of course your car beat that 996! You drive a 964 & we all know they are Better then those water pumpers. And as has been said Less weight is a better "add on power" trick any day. Your comment about "Real world" performance is important in reply to this threads question ... Personal choise is the most important issue in questions like "to Tip or not" or the other most asked "C2 vs C4"? How & where you drive are the reason why Porsche gave us these choises to begin with. These wonderful old Porsches satisfy a much wider range of Sports Car pleasures.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
I caught the joke ... and hope you took my reply likewise ... enjoy any jousting about Tips.
Of course your car beat that 996! You drive a 964 & we all know they are Better then those water pumpers. And as has been said Less weight is a better "add on power" trick any day. Your comment about "Real world" performance is important in reply to this threads question ... Personal choise is the most important issue in questions like "to Tip or not" or the other most asked "C2 vs C4"? How & where you drive are the reason why Porsche gave us these choises to begin with. These wonderful old Porsches satisfy a much wider range of Sports Car pleasures.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />