MH_UK

This is kinda off topic so please bear with me

I am currently looking for a 4x4 for the wife and I picked up the latest copy of top marques ( UK car sales mag')to see what was available....inevitably instead of looking for a car for the wife I ended up looking through the Porsche section to check out the prices etc....once Id looked through them I flicked back to check out the other "exoticars" and started to compare Porsche Vs Ferrari prices of similair vintages.

What surprised me was the mileage comparissons !.....there wasnt a single Ferrari offered for sale with more than 50,000 on the clock !!!, with the vast majority indicating mileages less than 30,000. I was intreauged so I surfed a few secondhand Ferrari dealers sites ( Tallacrest is a good one).....weird !

They actually say things like "as expected mileage" "normal mileage for age"....and these were 20,000 milers. Also a lot of them have had engine rebuilds and cam belts changed.

Good Grief ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> .....these are supposed to be supercars, why are they so unreliable? If they are comparable with Porsche how come our cars easily do over 100,000 without major surgery whilst Ferraris need all this attention. It made me feel good about my preffered "toy"

Anyway, can anybody explain this for me ?

Thanks

MH

Renato

My take is that they're usually cars that are owned by enthusiasts and are pampered garage queens, hence the low mileage. Also, the maintenance on these cars is so costly that it would be too expensive to rack up miles on them. I heard some ridiculous price quotes for a 10,000 mile cam belt change...ouch!

warmfuzzies

Hmmm,

Have I read this somewhere else?

I perused KHPC when I was looking for a 308/328 sometime ago, I lost heart when they said that running costs were 3 thousand pounds/year @ 3k mileage/year. 1k/thousand miles in running costs.........
They had examples at 40-50k miles, but not many.....
So when does a super car, become a supercar?

Kevin

rutz964C4

A friend had a Ferrari Mondial Cabrio, nice car beautiful sound, the car was bought new and was sold with 20.000Km on it in around 4 years, with this Km they had to change all braking disks and a gearbox (not nice) one the the car was stuck in first gear and runned reverse.

The prices for a clutch change or any repair in any of those cars are <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
ALEX

MH_UK

Warmfuzzies.....yup I posted this also on the PCGB forum, but quite frankly my experience is that you get a better response here on Rennlist. Particularly with respect to this I thought the US guys may be able to shed some light on the Ferrari thing....Im still amazed at the disparity in costs...Im sticking with my Porker

Drew_K

Ferraris aren't daily drivers, which explains the low mileage. I know a guy that has a 360 Modena with less than 10K miles. He's DE'd and autocrossed it before, but it's mainly an expensive toy for him. I instructed him at an autocross school, and the car was very impressive. Brakes better than my C2, with very little front end dive. And the sound...

He only drives it on the weekends because he has an AMG Mercedes for a daily driver. Very cool guy and down to earth. He's just getting to performance driving, so he's looking for an M3 that he can drive hard without worrying about it.

Douglas_T

Yes, I have also heard how expensive they are to maintain...Oh but that sound is music to my ears & soul!

warmfuzzies

I agree about that sound, but boy was I dissapointed after driving a 355 and 348 when inside the car it dosen't sound half as good as the howl of a flat 6.

crazyracer

I just had a 30,000 miles service performed and paid 13,000 Canadian dollars. Mine is a 87 with 56 K km. But the adrenalin rush driving that biest ...

andrew911

Here's my take (long <img border="0" alt="[blabla]" title="" src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" /> )

Well, the Porsche is more of a semi-exotic- it is a car with great capabilities, and enough reliability to be driven every day. It has the ability to be driven many miles with reliability and durability (over 100K miles/160+ KM) with realative ease. That being said, what I would consider to be the exotics are Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maclearen, maybe the GT2/GT3 porsches..things like that. Tempremental beasts that you most likely wouldn't drive every day, but if you have the money to afford them......NO SUBSTITUTE for them!

I love Ferraris, but to me they are a work of art-the body, engine and sound..I would only use it as a weekend car and in the best weather to enjoy it with all the senses. The Porsche on the other hand is much more practical, and thus most of them have higher average mileage on them.

By the way, I spoke to a Ferrari mechanic who said the 348 and really the 355 were the first of the "relatively" reliable Ferraris. Those cars and the ones that came after- the 550 maranello, 456, 360 Modena, etc. The cars that are both common and notorously expensive to maintain therefore include the 308/328 (and in some european countries the 208turbo). So, here in the US you can find clean 308s and 328s for relatively less than what you would expect a Ferrari to be (starting in the low $30K range for a decent example)- they still look + sound great, but they are not that fast by today's standards and cost a bunch to maintain so people will pay money for them, but the price is slightly offset according by the negatives.

As certified car nut, I would say the ultimate car for me to own would be a 355 Spider, certainly and not as an every day car. Since that day will almost certainly never come that I could afford such a car AND the maintence, I am more than happy and thankful for my 964!

My wife and I were on our Honeymoon in Hawaii last summer, and we rented a 348 spider for 6 hours and drove all over Maui in it. The guy at the dealer summed it all up when he handed me the keys- "The top is a pain to get up and down, the A/C and heating system is shorted out, the car is terrably expensive to maintain...but get it on the open road and the engine and gearbox are perfect" I couldn't have said it better-- the sound of that motor and the power delivery made it all worth it! And of course the looks of the car (even though I don't like the 348 nearly as much as the 355).

I love the sound of a 911...but this Ferrari had a sound which was much better if you can imagine...and it wasn't even a 12 cylinder Ferrari!

Speedraser

I understand that a major service on an F355 is $5,000+. They become more affordable to buy over the years, but not to run, sadly.

MH_UK

Thanks guys.....and hey Andrew did you have a "tache?" ala Magnum?.....nice thought though Hawaii in a Ferrari

MH

andrew911

Ha- no "tache", but I did have my baseball hat on! The place had 2 348 spiders for rent (one 90K miles! and the one we rented with about 36K miles), a couple of 328s, a viper, and a bunch of harley's. It was great- 6 hours we drove all over. It was something like $350, and wound up being one of the least expensive things we did in Hawaii if you factor in the 6 hours of enjoyment it gave us (especially me!)- nothing was cheap there, but what the heck- it was our Honeymoon! I guess renting that Ferrari was like a boat- fun to use for a while and give back so you don't have to pay for or do any of the maintenance-

Here's a tid-bit you guys will find interesting- most of the driving was done on the main roads of Hawaii going maybe 40-45mph steady. I of course gunned it when I got the chance, and even hit an indicated 130mph (210KM) quickly on one long stretch, and didn't baby the car from stop signs/lights. But I guess with so many miles at constant 40-45, the car used exactly 8 gallons of gas, and I drove the car 160 miles that day!! In other words, 20mpg! A highly tuned 3.4 liter V-8 (i.e. a ferrari) that got 20 mpg- I was surprised!

Speedraser

Andrew,
I was in Hawaii in June, also on my honeymoon, and also rented a Ferrari -- a 328 GTS in Honolulu.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

andrew911

Wow- we got married in July- we missed each other by 1 month and 1 island- Great minds think alike ....I'm a Porsche guy, but I certainly appreciate Ferrari's and all nice cars for that matter!