horst

Hate to beat a topic to death- but-I have a beutiful set of phoney cups- F=7-1/2X17, 52 mm offset, R 9X17, 47 mm offset. The car is a 1990 standard C-4, stock height & suspension. I know Adrian said every car is different, and I believe that. Have been reading about wheel studs, spacers, steering stops, ad nauseum, and my simple brain needs a simple answer, if there is one. Opinion: are these wheels gonna work or should I sell them? Jeff Curtis tried to sneak them out during his last visit.... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

MikeF

Horst,

I believe they should work with space to spare (inside). If you already have the wheels, and you have the car....why not simply give it a try?

horst

Thanks, Mike. That is probably what I will do; what gives me cause to pause is: have you priced 17" tires lately? Currently running some design 90 wheel, shod with good 16" SO-2 rubber. ...Actually, the only reason I want to switch is cosmetic- I hate the look of the design 90's

MikeF

Horst,

Too bad you're half-way across the country. I have a set of stock 996 twist spoke 17's shod with RE-730's collecting dust in the garage you'd be welcome to try. They're 17x9 and 17x7 with 55mm offsets. Fit perfect although I'll bet your 47mm offset rears will fill up the wheel well even better, while providing even more room for the oil line.

Currently running 18x10's in back and 18x8's up front shod with S-02's. Close fit but absolutely NO rubbing. Look awesome and the car handles like it's on rails. I switch back to the 17's for auto-x (18's are too pretty...and expensive to risk an altercation) or just for a change of pace, but the 18's seem to find their way back on the car within days of removal.

How about raising the rear and put a bare wheel on just to have a look at the amount of available space? Might give you an idea of how it will fit and look....just a thought.

horst

Haden't thought of the bare wheel idea. Think I will try it, although I know geometry will change when weight is on it. Guess the overall diameter will be about the same as my 16's, assuming shorter sidewalls on the 17's.... <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Adrian

Dear Horst,
Rears will be okay. The fronts will be too wide for a 1990 C4 unless you have the 10mm steering stops installed and minimum 5mm spacers. Suspension system fitted will also play a role. You will have to play around with settings and ride height I feel. The tyres you install are also critical. My previous post mentions tyre width variations. Something you must take into consideration. Of course tyre profile compared to width is also important for the 6% wheel speed differential limit.
In the end it is up to you and some trial and error. Luck and who built your C4 also plays a role,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

PS: So far my 225 tyre installation up front seems to be working. Lets hope it stays that way.

964spd

I got a set of phony but beatiful chrome 17" set on my 91' c2. I put 235 on front and 255 rear without any problem. Their are S03, the only set on store. I didn't want to wait for ordering so put that set on. The handling is pretty good after that. I spend $1100 on the tire set including labor.
Check out tire rack if you want cheaper one, you can get a set of 205 front 255 rear 17"s for about $770 plus shipping.
Hope this helps.

jonfkaminsky

Horst- Sounds like a set of Mille Miglias? Correct? Adrian is right- the rears will fit fine- the fronts will rub at full lock (at least with 205/50ZR17). On mine its not too bad, but I am going to install the stops anyway. It will look something like this:



Jon

Jeff Curtis

Yeah...almost got away with them too!

It was the your other hobby, you know, the collection you have in your office, that convinced me to put them back!

Horst, the rears will fit great! The fact that they have 47mm backspacing vice the common 55mm just gives you more clearance. As for the front, 5mm spacers are too much for aluminum lug nuts, but it you want to go with the open-ended steel ones used for the track, you'll be okay - good luck finding 5mm spacers though.

What I would certainly do is get yourself a set of 3mm spacers, also hard to find, but a friend of mine is currently making a run on 10 sets, if you want a set, let me know...you'll definitely AT LEAST need that for your fronts Horst.

As Adrian mentioned, the definitive answer for assuring clearance in the front is also installing the 10mm steering stops...this will limit how much your front wheels turn under full steering lock, just enough so the insides of the tires don't rub at the rear of your fenderwell. If you want to see what it looks like when you put 225 tires up front and don't upgrade the steering stops, go to John Miles' website and see the pics of my fenderwells in the suspension install article.

My final advice, use a set of Bridgestone RE-730s for your tires, they are cheap, and stick like a b____! I use them for autocrossing and come within less than a second of FTD...usually. The Bridgestone RE-730s are made fairly slender when compared to other brands/models. Check <a href="http://www.tirerack.com" target="_blank">www.tirerack.com</a> for the specs on most tires us "P-Car guys" would be interested in, including the coveted S03s.

I use RE-730 215 series (like using a 205) up front, with 7" 55mm offset wheels, and they rub slightly, if I don't have my 3mm spacers on. When I wear out the current fronts, I'm going to install the correct steering stops and go with 225 series RE-730s (like a 215 really).

But you should go with 205s in front, because you're really going to be limited due to that extra 1/2" in front. You do have 3mm to your benefit with the backspacing, but if you divide 1/2" (12.7mm) in half, that's 6.35 - you're still 3.35mm closer to your inner fenderwell than say with my wheels. Hopefully I did the math correctly??

So with 3mm spacers, you'll be where I started, before spacers...guess that brings us back to Adrian's suggestion of using 5-6mm spacers??

If you take advantage of Performance Product's current 20% off, you can get the new 7mm spacer/stud package that they now offer from H&R, a really nice package with 52mm studs, vice 45mm and 7mm HUB-CENTRIC spacers, the best way to go - for under $60 at your doorstep.

Mine should be here on Wednesday...just in time for me to install them and take off on Thursday - to VIR! BTW, I need the 7mm because I'm now using 245 series Hoosiers up front...and 275 in the rear, clearance, we must have clearance! <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

I have tons of pics on how to install extended studs, the fronts are a bit easier than the rear...but both jobs are still easy. I'm currently writing up a procedure on how to change them, and would be more than happy to share it with you.

Yes, I need a life...and a girlfriend who likes cars, hell, how 'bout just a girlfriend??

I'll be up your way in June, attending the inaugeral PCA Club Race at Mid-America Motorplex - Pacific Junction, Iowa. If I get a chance, I'll swing by - fire up the grill! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

964spd

sorry to cut in.
I really wonder how could I put 235/45 17" s03 on front without rubbing my fenderwall on full turn??
it's 7.9 17" wheel in the front.

Adrian

I do not know why you do not have wheel rub. Looking at your wheels I suggest they may have lower offset numbers like 41mm or similar. I know that there are few sets around 41mm offset front and 47mm rear. These wheels you are using are not 964 replica wheels they are replica twists.
This to me would be the only explanation because I know nobody that has got past the wheel rub problem with your set up using 55mm offset wheels.
As for Jeffs issue with the wheel spacers. Legally from the TÜV and the Swiss authorities you are permitted to use up to 6mm spacers without using longer studs. For nrmal road use this is deemed safe. It is certainly not safe if you are using the 964 for DE or track events. Then I would agree with Jeff and go with the steel wheel nuts.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

horst

Jeff, next time you come by, I'll introduce you to a beutiful daughter I'm trying to rid myself of. . Interesting mix: subborn German, shy, and opinionated all at the same time. Seriously, I am curious about these "steering stops" I keep hearing about. What is involved in installing. Won't the turning radius be piggish?With the 52 mm offset, won't the 3-1/2 mm spacers your friend is making be adequate. I guess I need a picture, because I cannot visualize how all this goes together. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

horst

Jon: Don't know how to tell if they are Mille Miglias. Mabey Jeff noticed when he eyed them here. Anyhow, here is all the ID I can supply:

1. No numbers next to valve stem hole
2. five spokes. Each has the following on the inside- 1= "Made in Italy"; 2= 7 1/2JX17H2;3= ET 52 NP; 4= 60174; 5= four circles, each with a letter under it "D" "F" "X" and "T" in the T cicle is the letter "P" Obviously this is one of the front wheels, the rears have similar codes, except for the size, I believe- I just havent hauled those out of the closet.

Jeff; IF YOU DO MEET RENNY DURING YOUR NEXT VISIT, I AM VERY HAPPY THAT YOU REMEMBER MY OTHER HOBBY

<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

964spd

[quote]Originally posted by Adrian:
<strong>I do not know why you do not have wheel rub. Looking at your wheels I suggest they may have lower offset numbers like 41mm or similar. I know that there are few sets around 41mm offset front and 47mm rear. These wheels you are using are not 964 replica wheels they are replica twists.
This to me would be the only explanation because I know nobody that has got past the wheel rub problem with your set up using 55mm offset wheels.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thanks, Adrian.
I wonder if I would have a problem after I lower my car. ( I order H&R and bilstein set)

jonfkaminsky

Horst- Those are Mille Miglia "Cup Due," they are patterned after the "Cup II" wheels from the 993.

<a href="http://www.millemigliawheels.com/it/type_cup2.html" target="_blank">Mille Miglia Cup 2</a>

I have weighed the the "Cup Due" myself using the bathroom scale method- the fronts weigh 22lbs (4 more than the OEM Cup 2) and the rears weigh 23.5lbs (4 more than the OEM Cup 2). I run Bridgestone Potenza RE730, 205/50ZR17 fronts and 255/40ZR17 on these rims and have slight rubbing on the fronts at full lock.

Check my photo above a few posts- you'll see that they fill out the rear fender wells quite nicely. They really help stick the rear end. I am not a track guy, so I wasn't too worried about the weight. I was more concerned about the rear oil line problem raised by Adrian over a year ago and didn't want to mess with spacers. The price was also right.