mj964

Gentlemen - I don't get it.

I bought a '91 C4 w/ only 22k miles two years ago. I'd wanted a 911 for 20 years, since working at a VW/Porsche dealer in Ann Arbor during college. I looked at a variety of 3.2L Carreras and 964's, most not well maintained, before finding a box-stock low mileage C4. Compared to earlier 911's, I figured the 964 had bigger displacement for more torque and HP, was faster, had a modern coilover suspension, and nicely integrated bumpers. I also thought the active rear spoiler a neat trick, but I know this can be controversial.

Since buying the car and paying more attention, I began picking up a sense of an inferiority complex around the 964. Not a "true 911" like the earlier Carreras? Not as sensuous as the 993?

Everybody on this board fell for the same car I did. What do others think?

Thanks for the cheap therapy!
Mike

CN

I bought the car that I liked, not one that others had to like. You love your 964 and for good reason. That's all that matters. I bought a 1989 Carrera when I was actually looking at 964's. I saved a chunk of ching and the lower cost of maintenance, low milage (40,000) and the low initial purchase price all contributed to my decision. I have never experienced that neg attitude towards the 964 from anyone. The bumpers on my 1989 have grown on me to a point of preference. You have a wonderful Porsche that nobody should DIS.

ckkrause

Mike-

My '92 C2 is my 4th 911 after a '68, '73T, and '82 SC and it is such a better car, ther is no comparison. That is not to say that there aren't things about the older cars that I really liked. I loved the '73T handling and the sound of the SC, but I now have a car that I don't have to wipe the inside of the windshield all winter, and I don't smell hot oil when I turn on the heater. Oh, and I love the power!!!!

-CKKrause

Bins

Cant sleep 2nite, so Ill answer first from the other side of the world...

IMHO Theres nothing inferior about the 964. Yes the looks arent like its little sibling the 993. But Ive seen some beautiful examples of 964s. AND one has to remember the age of the 964s. Think about it like that and its classic looks are timeless. Put a modern set of wheels on the car and its still a head turner.

Okay so theres some technical issues but then the 993 has its own set of technical issues.

Although I still believe in buying the best that you can afford.

Regards

Marc '91 C2 Coupe

Howdy,

Being a new 964 owner, I can only say why I bought my car. I have not yet experienced any negative attitude towards it, nor do I expect to. After all, when it's all said and done, it is a Porsche 911, pure and simple (well, maybe not quite simple, but you know what I mean!)...

I bought my car because it was the nicest car that fit into my budget: a one-owner, low mileage garage queen. I had to fly 2,500 miles to test drive it, but I fell in love with it after the first 5 minutes. It is the car I have always wanted, ever since I drove a 1975 911S in 1979.

I looked at an '87, but preferred the 964 for several reasons: larger and more powerful egg-beater, beautiful styling (albeit not hugely different from the '87) more civilized interior and creature comforts (real air conditioning!) and a shift lever that isn't two feet long!

Most of all, it's got a front end that is the perfect spoiler (high fenders acting like aerodynamic fences, forcing all that air up over the hood and generating a ton of downforce). And from the rear, I've never seen a more sensuous pair of hips.

Hey it's a 911, and a damned nice one! I'm very pleased to own it, and I can't believe anyone would ever disagree.



Marc

Jay H

I sold my 3.2 Carrera to get a 964. While I was researching 964s, most everyone I talked to told me to stay away from the 964's. Nobody seemed to love them. Salespeople and mechanics told me to hold out for the beloved 993 model or stay with a 3.2. I was told the 964 was nothing but problems. At first glance, 964's seemed to have a poor reputation, but from more research, this board, and talking with owners, I came away thinking the 964 model is a fantastic 911 to own.

I always like 'the underdog', and after driving a few 964s and comparing their prices to the relatively similar performing 993, I decided I had to have a 964. They are one of the biggest bargins in the 911 world right now (if you get a nice one).

Looks are subjective. Some love the 964's modern, yet classic looks, some feel the front bumper cover is heavy looking.

I think Mr. Anderson's writings in Excellence's Market Update articles labeled the 964 as an ugly duckling due to it's styling and potential mechanical problems. Though he goes on to state the 964 leaking problems are overblown. He has seemed to have moderated his view now, stating they are good cars with a loyal following.

I wonder if the '99 to 2001 996's will follow in the 964's footsteps as being the next "ugly duckling" 911. I've read posts stating a person should stay away from the early 996's due to 'first year' problems and I've noticed the resale value of early 996's is very poor. If Porsche goes back to making more of a raw car out of the 911 again for the next series (997, 998 or whatever it turns out to be), I wonder if the 996 owners will be in the same boat as us 964 owners. Just a though...and only $.02 worth.

Jay
<a href="http://www.jays911.com" target="_blank">90 964</a>

GeoC2cab

High,
11 year owner here, dont buy into that bull****, thats all I can say. 964 is sweet.

Cupcar

Going on 10 years with my 964, nothing Porsche offers now is better than what I have IMHO.

Randall G.

I've loved the 964 since the day it was introduced. It never occurred to me that it might be an "ugly duckling" until I read Bruce Anderson write something to that effect in Excellence magazine. As Jay has suggested, I'm afraid Bruce has had an inordinate affect on the car's image.

I feel the 911's styling reached its pinnacle with the 964, integrating the bumpers and bulging, muscular fenders of the Carrera into a clean package reminiscent of the original 911. Contemporary, yet classic. Of course--it should go without saying--styling evaluations are extremely subjective and personal. (Can you imagine if I was writing this stuff for Excellence two or three times a year, how much better the 964's image would be.)

993s are fabulous cars, but they are beginning to reveal their own quirks as they age ... some of these quirks being fairly significant. As a matter of fact, in the 993 "community," '95s are starting to gain a (unfair, IMO) reputation as being a model year to avoid.

Christer

When I purchased my car last year I was in the fortunate position of being able to purchase almost any Porsche model that I wanted. Although money did come into it to a point, I actually like the 964 better than any of the other MY's and this was the main reason for buying one. To me it is such a good blend of classic lines and 'modern' curves.

I have a secret though: I want a TVR Tuscan..,..

I visited a TVR dealership this weekend and had a quick test drive. But don't tell the 964...!!

Flying Finn

Just relax, it's a fine car!

I have 911 & 993, so 964 is missing from the middle but it's not missing because I think it's ugly or something, I'd love to have 964 there in the middle!

I bought the 993 because (and I bought the 911 because it's 911!) IMO truly it's the best looking 911 (or is it... next time I'll see my 911, I might think differently... ), last air cooled etc. when 911 really reached it's top level so far, but that doesn't mean 964 isn't great car also (IMO, naturally someone else (I'm sure there are 'someone elses' around this forum... )) can think 964 is the greatest 911).

It's a nice car, so just enjoy! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Side note to col:
993 was not designed by wind-tunnel jockeys! <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" />

col

Hi to all. I'm a new user. I've a '90 C4 which I brought back to England with me from Hong Kong where I lived for 10 years.
On the 'ugly duckling' question, last month's 911 & Porsche World magazine had an article on buying used Porsches in Germany. One dealer was quoted as saying that "As for 964s, unless it's very low mileage-and in perfect condition-we won't touch one." No explanation for why the aversion to 964s though.
My personal experience has been very satisfactory with the car. Have had my C4 for over 4 years now and the clutch replacement which I had done last week is the first major work it has needed. Not bad for a 12 year old car! (although admittedly the mileage is very low for its age)I too think that the 964 was the pinnacle of development as far as body style is concerned. The cars have gradually been getting smoother over the years and the 996 looks as if it has been squeezed out of a toothpast tube! No offence to owners, it's still a fabulous car, but the body's just too damn smooth for my liking. The 964 looks like it was designed by a sportscar enthusiast and not by wind-tunnel jockeys.

Beetos

I had a mint 88 Carrera with cams, mass air etc, sold it for a nice 90 964 and NEVER looked back, best bloody move I ever made, the 964 is an absolute bargain for what you get. People talk alkinds of bull**** about them, I can tell you that I drove a couple of 993 (that I love by the way) and for the cost delta, there nothing in it, as for the older 911's people will harp on about how much lighter and more '911' they are, all highlt subjective, a cuple hunderd lbs make no diff. on the streets. Just drop the primary muffler and cat off youe 964 and your down to 3000lbs in a c2. I can honestly say the 964 is a much more complete ride then the 3.2's far more fun becuase of the torque. I have the 'old' style heads with no gasket, never ever leaked oil even with a 5psi blower attached. Sometimes things are overblown and turned into a witchhunt. The 964 is the 911 bargain right now because of all this undue critisism especially If you are handy with a wrench like me and do all your own work.

DaveS

When I was looking for a car, I heard the same thing from a dealer that they didn't touch 964s. When pushed on the issue, he just shrugged as to why. My assumption is that the market works in the long run. While the 87-89s are great cars they are all getting older and all putting on the miles. At some point potential buyers will take a step back and realize that for the same price, they can have a newer car, with on average less miles than the late 80s Carreras. The prices are good to buy now and will turn up in the next 2 years.

As to appearance, I quite frankly don't get it. I think folks are really splitting hairs on pros and cons. Yes, the 993 is freaking cool looking, but for an extra $10K on the purchase price, you be the judge.

joey bagadonuts

I think we're all very fortunate to drive 964's or any Porsche for that matter. Remember, there is ALWAYS something better out there, just don't let that ruin your Porsche experience. You've got a great car--enjoy it!