Randall G.

[quote]Originally posted by 993RS:
<strong>Both 964 and 993 are good-looking cars. I find that the front fender on the 964 looks too heavy though. On the other hand, the upright lights are a plus, and are more typical of the classic Porsche look.

***snip***</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, what if Porsche had taken the 964's classic, upright, "stovepipe" fenders, and combined it with the 993's early model style "pointy" front end? I don't want to give the wrong impression--I love the way the 964 is styled as is--but I might also lust after a modern car that incorporates both styling cues of the early model cars.

MikeF

Ahhh Randall...now you've struck a cord. The bumper-work of a 993 combined with the front fenders of a 964...hmmmmmm. Anyone proficient with Photoshop? Lets have a look-see.

Thomas Linser

Randall!
Seems to be a good Idea, but I'm no good on computer Photoshoping. I'm sure someone out there is a computer ferak who'll be able to perform the trick. Gentlemen (those who know how to usw a computer) start your Photoshops.

Cheers to everyone

Randall G.

Well, we certainly don't want me to try digitally creating a 964/993 hybrid. It's liable to come out looking like a dump-truck or worse.

Back to the old discussion of changes in assembly techniques/materials with the 993. Here's a link to an interesting old post on this subject, presented by the always entertainiing to read Grusse:

<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/993/993.pl?read=53929" target="_blank">Another Thread on 993 vs. 964 Durability</a>

MikeF

Great find Randall .

Quoted from the master himself regarding the transition from 964 to 993:

"Those people where "freeed" to the marked. Saving costs there. Most off them are now runing own busines or moved to other companys. Porsche lost those people and wouldn´t be able to make such cars anymore".

And, Roland shares his personal opinion regarding the 964:

"Has the purer Bodylines and looks to some better ( to me the 993 looks unshaped and missproportionatet from some views )".

BTW...I haven't seen any posts from Roland recently...is he still lurking on this board?

Suffice it to say that what the 993 has in techno-goodies, the 964 makes up for in soul and character IMHO. Fact is, neither one is a slouch.

Jay H

I love Roland's quote: [quote] "The 924 also was an throwback for real Porscheaners. Watercooled and mixed pickles." <hr></blockquote> Man, that's funny!

993RS

Actually before the 993 was officially released, some early models out for road tests were camouflaged. Porsche AG actually hid one as a hybrid we just discussed. Here is a photo from a book:

Randall G.

Great work, RS! That's one good looking car, even if it is a test mule. I suspect there was (much?) internal debate over whether to use the sloped (959 influenced) front fenders on the 993, or to retain the upright fenders.

Interesting that Porsche even dug up a set of Design 90 wheels to camouflage the car further.

Stephen Smith

All this about looks is purely subjective and subject to ones personal tastes and preference. About the only true statement is that the 964 and 993 and different. Each has their own +s and -es. I've got a 93 C2 and a friend has a 94 993. If we were on the race track (which were not) then I suspect his car would be a bit faster (both in stock standard form). Lets get back to the real world.
My 964 is very reliable and drives fantastic, it is a little more raw than the 993, but to me that makes the 964 it more of a true sports car.
A while ago I read a thread on the 993 board and he was so dismayed with his 993 because of the $$$ it had cost him he wanted peoples opinions on whether to ditch it.
Both the 993 and the 964 are machines which require maintenance and replacements as time goes on.
Finally, the 964 is a beautiful piece of machinery, but 993 owners who have "the last air cooled 911" will probably like to say they prefer the 993 to the 964, well fine what else would one expect them to say.
93 C2 Tip

Thomas Linser

Hi 993 RS!

What a great picture!!! I thought I saw a lot of Photos of the 964, but I must admit that this one is some sort of special!! The '90 wheels look a bit lost in those wheelarches but that surely was the intention, camouflage or something like this.
BTW looked at your site your car looks brilliant, compliments.

Cheers THOMAS

MikeF

Wow! This BBS never ceases to amaze me. No photoshop necessary! Why the heck did they change the fenders? That car is the best of both worlds (at least from the 20 yard view). A nice set of 3.6 Turbo wheels, Euro ride height restored (for the US), and she's good to go. How do I place my order? <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

Flying Finn

[quote]Originally posted by Stephen Smith:
<strong>...but 993 owners who have "the last air cooled 911" will probably like to say they prefer the 993 to the 964, well fine what else would one expect them to say...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yep, you're right, of course 993 owners say they prefer the 993 to the 964, that's why they have one.

They didn't have to buy 993, they might as well have bought 964, but they didn't.

993RS

In reference to the picture I posted of the hybrid Porsche, the book says that the chief designer Harm Lagaay integrated the design of the from of the 968 and the design of the rear of the Pan America study car. He was already trying to get a family look (which we now have with the boxster and the 996) already then. The front of the 959 was also design-related. The old fenders were apparently never taken into consideration. (Book: "Porsche 911 - Forever Young" by Tobias Aichele.

Randall G.

[quote]Originally posted by MikeF:
<strong>***snip***

Why the heck did they change the fenders? That car is the best of both worlds (at least from the 20 yard view).

***snip***

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, I'll offer my speculation .... Sales were real slow, and Porsche was looking for some sort of change to generate more interest/attention.

Perhaps they started with the return to early style rounded front bumper, and the $5k reduction in price. Then, maybe someone asked the question, "Will this be radical enough?" So, even though the upright fenders had been in place since the car's inception, the decision was made to go with the 959 inspired front fenders--the most radical restyling in the car's history. (Of course, the 996 has since taken the crown as most radically restyled 911.)

Porsche's strategy worked--they sold a lot of 993s, and many people love the 959 inspired front fenders. On the other hand, many of us prefer the classic upright fenders. I wonder if the car would have been as successful--with its $5k reduction in price, redesigned front bumper, 6-speed tranny and more powerful engine--if Porsche had kept the upright fenders? We will never know .

Randall G.

Hi 993RS,

&gt;In reference to the picture I posted of the hybrid Porsche, the book says that the chief designer Harm Lagaay integrated the design of the from of the 968 and the design of the rear of the Pan America study car.

You're speaking with respect to the final 993 body, not the photo (964/993 hybrid), right?

&gt;He was already trying to get a family look (which we now have with the boxster and the 996) already then. The front of the 959 was also design-related. The old fenders were apparently never taken into consideration. (Book: "Porsche 911 - Forever Young" by Tobias Aichele.

Yes, put a 993 & 968 next to each other, and--from the front--it will take an enthusiast to tell which car is which. Also, both the 968 and 993's factory literature point out the 959 influenced styling. Considering how poorly the 968 had sold, (when the 993 was introduced) I thought Porsche was taking a huge gamble by putting similar fenders on the 911. Honestly, I didn't think the car would sell. But, as history has shown, I was very wrong .