JonSeigel

I'm still looking for a 964 and notice that a lot of the cars are C4s. I've heard that they are less fun to drive than C2s because they understeer. What are your thoughts on this.

Are C4s much more complicated and and costly to maintain/repair?

Is there a premium for one car vs. the other in today's resale market?

Thanks,

Thanks,

Jon

P.S. I don't have to deal with bad weather.

horst

I have a C-4, and am quite pleased with it. I like the way it pulls out of the corners. Yes, it is more complicated. Would I get another? Yes. However, If a really good C-2 came available, I would not give it a second chance- they are also wonderful. How is that for a Non-answer?

jfkaminsky

I agree with Horst! It comes down to what you want. You'll know the car when you see it C2 or C4. I do disagree with the characterization of handling you mentioned. I believe the C4 handles a bit better than C2 because of the better distribution of weight and I believe the "tendency" to swap ends during a mid-corner power off is diminished although a C4 driver may want to comment more on that. I'd like to have an exact C4 version of my C2 and go through DE with both on the same day. That'd be fun.

RobC

As I have heard it, the C4 has a little better turn-in under braking but more understeer accelerating out of a corner.

For my tastes my '91 C2 (stock suspension except for 18" Kinesis Supercups) understeers excessively as well. It seems most of the understeer comes from softness in the rear suspension, and I am sure the C4's suffers from this also.

When I upgrade my suspension I will be looking to stiffen the rear and lower the front slightly (1/4") more than the rear (to shift weight forward) which will hopefully cure the problem.

JonSeigel

Oh yeah, forgot to ask. I've been told that the clutch on a C4 is much stiffer than on a C2. True?

Thanks again,

Jon

horst

Jon, I have driven both. Can't remember that the cluch of either made an impression as to being different. Next time I drive the C2, I'll try to pay attention...

John Miles

Hi Jon,
Own a C4, love it. Never driven a C2!
Check out the History page on my site for links to C4/C2 reviews and test drives.
Cheers,
John

1AS

I have a 91 C4 that is used year-round. If you have snow, the C4 is great fun. With M/S tires, it feels like it could climb a tree. In every day dry weather driving, you can't drive fast enough to be troubled by oversteer. The track might be a different story, but I only use mine on the street. If the clutch is any heavier, I didn't detect it. Good luck. AS

Level8Drummer

Whoa! Speaking 2wd only, I thought that all 911s oversteered? Do 964s understeer? Are you guys running odd tire pressures or something?

1AS

Porsches oversteer if you back off the gas in a corner or brake while turning in. This takes weight off the rear, and the momentum of the rear wants to keep it going straight, so the front turns and the rear goes straight---ergo oversteer. But, C4's understeer in this situation unless you brake hard enough to activate the antilock and uncouple the front diff. It's really hard to do on the street, but easy to demonstrate on a racetrack. This is different from busting the rear loose with lots of gas in a low speed turn, which lots of basically understeering cars can be forced to do-eg. the Mustang.

Drew_K

My 92 C2 understeers at lower speeds (less than 50 mph) and/or through tight turns. The handling is more neutral or rear-biased if I lift off the gas, stab the gas, or press the brakes. My friends have a hard time believing that my car understeers for around-city driving. On the track at triple digit speeds may be a different story, but I haven't had a chance to track my car yet.

Level8Drummer

Ok, that makes more sense. So are there any other cars that oversteer as easily as a 911?

1AS

Yes. The Lotus Elise 190R will go sideways in an instant. This is typical of mid-engined cars. Ever try a formula ford? You absolutely can't lift off the gas in a corner. I suspect more than one Porsche has bit the dust in racing when a leading competitor suddenly slowed in a corner.

Adrian

Dear Alex,
Firstly as you say the 911 (964) C4 always understeers. They cannot be made to oversteer without radical suspension mods. The AWD system is purely mechanical and IT IS NOT POSSIBLE to uncouple anything. Massive understeer as opposed to normal built in understeer is caused by the activation of the traction control system. Stomping on the brakes activates the ABS and deactivates the traction control, below 80kph. The traction control is like an electronic limited slip diff. You can lock the rear wheels together and you can lock the front wheels to the rear wheels. That is it. Locking the rear wheels together and transfering torque can only occur when one wheel loses grip and its wheel speed increases over 6% more than the other wheel. Same with front to rear and vice versa torque transfer.
The C4 understeers much more than the C2. Very hard but not impossible to spin a C4.
A simple way to reduce understeer in a C4 is your selection of tyres and widths. For major changes you have to do what I and other owners have done and do some radical suspension changes. My C4 has very neutral understeer until the traction control kicks in but it took a lot of work and money to get to this condition,
Ciao,
Adrian.

horst

Adrian, I guess I am exceptionally talented. I DID manage to get the C4 to oversteer once. Spooky, because it was so unexpected!