A 964 "Cup Chip" too good to be true?
07-06-2005, 01:42 PM
#16
If anyone here can burn chips, we should get our hands on one and have some of us do before and after dynos with the RS or Cup chips... I'll participate for sure. The blanks only cost $7 USD or so.
07-06-2005, 01:56 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
According to Cupcar's dino run, that is 258 hp at the wheels. Allowing for a 15% drivetrain loss, we are looking at 303 flywheel hp. Am I reading this right? If so, it confirms what I always suspected about Cup engines, they put out alot more horsepower than anyone is willing to admit. And those that have been further "blueprinted" to 11.3:1, well there's got to be at least 315 output there. Hello?
07-06-2005, 02:17 PM
#18
Nordschleife Master
I have done the back-to-back dyno runs with a stock C2 cup chip, a Euro RS chip, and a Euro Cup Chip. The part numbers of the brains were 964.618.124 (C2) and 964.618.124.00 (Cup Car) and the HP difference between the C2 and the Cup car was as I posted earlier. The RS and Cup cars produced effectively the same hp.
John,
You are reading the dyno results correctly...
John,
You are reading the dyno results correctly...
07-06-2005, 02:20 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
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I have access to gear to burn chips
I have to ask though, is it ethical to do so? Is the data on these chips IP to another person who should be compensated?
07-06-2005, 04:13 PM
#20
Racer
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by C4Russ
I have to ask though, is it ethical to do so? Is the data on these chips IP to another person who should be compensated?
then again to be on the safe side, I'd re-up my PCA membership so I wouldn't feel too guilty...
07-07-2005, 12:24 AM
#24
"I'd check on the original chip, if there is no copyright law written on it, I'd assume it's free.." - Schuey -
Not true!
The original Porsche DME chip microcode IS covered by copyright law and, as
such, all the basic elements of copyright infringement apply. It's not necessary
that copyright be posted on intellectual property to be protected.
So, all those performance chip suppliers are in violation of Porsche's copyright.
As an example, ask AMD what happened when they used Intel's math coprocessor
code in their 486 chip.
Not true!
The original Porsche DME chip microcode IS covered by copyright law and, as
such, all the basic elements of copyright infringement apply. It's not necessary
that copyright be posted on intellectual property to be protected.
So, all those performance chip suppliers are in violation of Porsche's copyright.
As an example, ask AMD what happened when they used Intel's math coprocessor
code in their 486 chip.
07-07-2005, 10:25 AM
#25
Racer
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Lorenfb
"I'd check on the original chip, if there is no copyright law written on it, I'd assume it's free.." - Schuey -
Not true!
The original Porsche DME chip microcode IS covered by copyright law and, as
such, all the basic elements of copyright infringement apply. It's not necessary
that copyright be posted on intellectual property to be protected.
So, all those performance chip suppliers are in violation of Porsche's copyright.
As an example, ask AMD what happened when they used Intel's math coprocessor
code in their 486 chip.
Not true!
The original Porsche DME chip microcode IS covered by copyright law and, as
such, all the basic elements of copyright infringement apply. It's not necessary
that copyright be posted on intellectual property to be protected.
So, all those performance chip suppliers are in violation of Porsche's copyright.
As an example, ask AMD what happened when they used Intel's math coprocessor
code in their 486 chip.
07-07-2005, 05:04 PM
#27
Technical Guru
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by agentpennypacker
Loren is going to tell us that you can't get power from chips next...
07-07-2005, 05:24 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Which 3.6% should be considered for chips?
I've just recevied Adrian's book and he is none too excited about chip mods bringing any benefit.
Which brand(s) actually provide a benefit to the stock engine?
Which brand(s) actually provide a benefit to the stock engine?
07-07-2005, 05:29 PM
#29
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
My thoughts on the matter - if you can run a higher octane, good quality fuel ( like race gas) , I would think that 96.4% of the chips out there would provide a noticeable benefit from an increased ignition timing advancement thanks to a different chip.
If you run on crappy pump gas (like 91 octane So Cal gas - that's the best we've got) and just tool around town then you'll likely get nothing from an upgraded chip but increased knocking/pinging/pinking.
If you run on crappy pump gas (like 91 octane So Cal gas - that's the best we've got) and just tool around town then you'll likely get nothing from an upgraded chip but increased knocking/pinging/pinking.
07-07-2005, 05:38 PM
#30
Nordschleife Master
There is in fact benefit to be gained from improved ignition timing over stock C2. This is shown by the power differences between the C2 and the Cup Car or Euro RS chips. The C2 chip is programmed for lower octane fuel such as 91 octane where the Euro RS and Cup car are programmed for 98 RON or about 93 octane US measurement (R+M/2). I have not been able to improve on the Cup Car timing running 93 octane fuel and a blueprinted true 11.3:1 compression engine. In fact, an aftermarket chip (from europe) I tried had 3-4 degrees more timing than the Cup car and the plugs showed some signs of detonation. I do not know where the chip came from as it was in a brain from an imported Euro Cup car.
I have been able to get better air fuel ratios than the Cup car or C2 chips by programming chips, but have not seen any real HP gains from it. The 1990 C2 brain has a fuel quality swich that can add +3% (position 1) or +6% fuel (position 2) which does help a car that is running lean due to exhaust/cam changes.
If it were me, I would look for a Cup Car or Euro RS chip for my C2 provided you can run 93 or better octane fuel.
I have been able to get better air fuel ratios than the Cup car or C2 chips by programming chips, but have not seen any real HP gains from it. The 1990 C2 brain has a fuel quality swich that can add +3% (position 1) or +6% fuel (position 2) which does help a car that is running lean due to exhaust/cam changes.
If it were me, I would look for a Cup Car or Euro RS chip for my C2 provided you can run 93 or better octane fuel.
Last edited by Geoffrey; 07-09-2005 at 06:33 AM.