Steve Nugent

OK kids, this is one of those questions where 10 different people give you 11 different answers, so at this point I'm just hoping for some kind of vaguely discernable consensus. Here's the situation: '91 C2 coupe, 100% street driven, changing out stock suspension (which I think is too soft, but maybe that's also a function of age) for Bilstein sports/H&R springs all around. Some (including my mechanic, who has never steered me wrong, no pun intended) say adding monoball mounts is well worth the extra money - improved handling over shocks/springs alone and much less tire wear due to adjustable camber settings. Others knowledgeable folks agree, but insist monoballs will make the ride on a street car far too harsh, and that they should only be used on the track. Here's the question: HELP?

Jeff Curtis

Okay, Steve, so I'm the first guy out with one of your "11 different answers".

I found that the general consensus on adjustable camber plates say that they're wonderful...on the track. While I was going through my suspension mods, this question came up several times, as did for the rear mounts as well.

ALL of the vendors/suppliers of such a product advised against using these on a street driven car. Mind you, I do 12-14 events a year, but also drive my car to work several times a week, go on short "road trips" with it and run errands as well.

I have the exact description for a suspension system that you describe, with adjustable "Cup" swaybars. The H&R progressive rate sport/lowering springs are to soften the ride a bit, under normal conditions, the Bilstein "HD" shocks that you will find (vice "sport") are great compliments to the springs...remember, I used sport/lowering springs for a 965 Turbo, they're a little stiffer.

While the car is pretty smooth on the street, it's fairly violent over railroad tracks and the like. I couldn't imagine having ERP/Weltmeister camber plates in there...and on the rear, whoah!

To date, I have attended 14 events with my 964, I have yet to experience tire wear beyond what I would call normal for a track driven car on track tires...currently the Kumho ECSTA V700 (the "new" ones). While I must admit camber plates and solid mounts in the rear would likely contribute to that "rides on rails" feeling all the more, I want some street driveability - right now, my car is on the edge of being "indecent", so I'll leave it be.

Cupcar

My car has monoballs front and rear as I have European RS suspension. This was a street suspension in Europe and many drivers in Europe use their RS daily. The ride is definitely harsh but acceptable in Southern California given our roads. If you have a lot of potholes, railroad tracks etc in Va. I might not recommend for a daily driver. I think if you tracked the car the advantages may make ride disadvantages a fair trade off. <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

J richard

I have the H&R/Bilsteins monoball setup front and
rear with the factory camber bar. This is a great mod. The whole car is much tighter with a suprisingly compliant ride. Not soft, but better than a T-bar car with big bars and koni's by a long shot.

Bill Gregory

I just installed the Porsche Carrera RS suspension with Porsche monoballs in front, and it's surprisingly compliant. I had feared that having the monoball's would transmit noise and be a pain, and haven't found that at all. As far as camber, on my dual purpose C2, I've got -2.6 degrees in front, and I'd think you'd only want more on a dedicated track machine. Note that the monoball itself isn't adjustable for camber, so the camber adjustment is via the stock adjuster bolt. Here's a picture of the Porsche monoball itself:



And here's a picture of the installed strut/spring/monoball, with a view of the bottom side of the monoball:



There will be an article going up on John Miles 964 site shortly to discuss this project in more detail. Just sent the article and pics yesterday.

Jeff Curtis

Nice setup Bill! Your project is really coming around by the day.

I wonder how John is going to deal with TWO articles on suspension changeout?? I just sent him one about three weeks ago on changing out the shocks/struts, with pics too.

Oh well, guess we should've "joined forces" when you mentioned it some time ago.

About how much were the Porsche monoballs...and are they compatible with Bilstein HD shocks??

Steve Nugent

Thanks to everyone for their input; I haven't decided which way I'll go yet - I'm leaning towards the monoballs - but I think I'll wait to read Bill's article before making a final decision. Will keep you posted.

Steve
'91 C2

Bill Gregory

[quote]<strong>About how much were the Porsche monoballs...and are they compatible with Bilstein HD shocks??</strong><hr></blockquote>

Jeff,

The Porsche monoballs cost around $550 for the pair and the associated other parts shown in the first picture above, i.e. two of everything in the picture. As to whether they are compatible with the HD Bilsteins, below is a picture of the stock shock and the RS shock. Note the difference in space from the top of the threads to where the shaft is a larger diameter. If the HD Bilstein's have the spacing as on the strut on the left, I don't think that will work with the monoballs (as compared to the strut on the right).



I think it's great you sent an article on your install into John. It'll be a big help to others to see different approaches to improve our 964's.