sbach50

I'm about to buy my first 911 and have been keying on late 80's Carreras but now have the chance to get a 91 Carrera 2 for only a few thousand more than an 89 with comparable miles (although the 89 is in a little sharper condition, and the windleak over the windshield (Targa) is also less- better seal?). This 91 was built after the gasket fix, and has had a new clutch with the dual mass flywheel installed recently, so that's good. I like the idea of getting antilock brakes, and of course the bigger motor, but a mechanic told me the 3.6 is more prone to head problems than the earlier motors due to having to run leaner and thus hotter. He also said that despite being after the gasket fix, all 91's are hurt in value by that problem.
I would really appreciate any comments people have regarding the trade-offs between the late year Carreras and the Carrera 2. Is there less engine life expectancy (already at 90,000 miles)? Is the Carrera less likley to hold value as well? Also- can one be sure that windleaks will be fixed by new seals? Thanks!
p.s. with what I'm reading about it being a buyer's market, what would be a typical price for a 91 Targa with about 90,000 miles in the Pacific Northwest?

Thanks!

MelissaM

Hi,

I see that you've gotten a lot of good feedback on the 911 board.

Here's my take, posted here so that you didn't think we 964 folks were snobs and wouldn't respond.

Some people avoid pre-92's at all costs, which I think is a big mistake. Of course, I'm biased, as I own a 1990. If you get any car, MAKE SURE IT'S A GOOD ONE. The problems on the early 964's are well-documented, so you already have a head start in what to look for. Not only that, but the problems only affected a minority of the cars.

I think the early 964's are a great value -- the price is lower due to people's perception of these as problem cars. You get the updates to the engine, suspension, and amenities (ABS, air bags, better A/C, updated interior.) Not only that, but I doubt they'll ever be considered a collector's 911, so you can drive them without feeling guilty about putting on the miles. And these cars were meant to be driven!

All that said, the late 911's are great cars as well. They have a different feel to them -- more raw than the 964, and a reputation for being a solid car. However, did your mechanic just happen to mention the valve guide problem in '87 - '89 911's? This affected a minority of the cars, but it is a known problem to look out for.

As far as typical prices for '91 Targa's go, I'd guess in the mid- to high- $20k's. Maybe into the low-$30k's. (Haven't checked for a while.)

Tom Sharpes is selling his excellent '90 C2 Targa and asking $29,500. It's in the rennlist classifieds -- you might take a look. It has several updates & mods.

Good luck!

-- Melissa

Bill Gregory

You need to look at several data points. One I like is the Kelly Blue Book person-to-person (as opposed to dealer retail) sales at www.kbb.com . You can check the values in the Market Updates in Excellence. And watch what people are asking. If you belong to a local P club (PCA or POC) ask around to find what people are finding for prices. In same areas there's a gulf between asking and selling prices.

Decolliber

Consider also maintenance issues. The Carrera is a much simpler car, and with the aid of the Bentley manual, you can (without any technical expertise) do almost anything yourself. Parts are also significantly cheaper. A top overhaul will cost a few thousand $, but I would think that head problems on a 964 would cost a lot more to fix. If money were not a constraint, yes I would rather have a 964 ...

Kevin

SBACK;

There is night and day differences between the two cars. You do have to look at the engine and flywheel, but as you know, how many 3.2ltr have had guide problem failures, I had a '85 that lost them at 45K, In our climate (Seattle) just the heating system alone would push me to purchasing a 964. Make sure the Targa has good top seals. Another thing to look at is with 90K on the car you will be looking at a top end rebuild sooner than later, you need to factor that in. The 964's are leaps ahead, more so that the 993 over the 964. Is the car at a Dealer?

Tom Sharpes

I have a 1990 C2 for sale. Take a look at it here :
http://members.rennlist.com/c2driver

I have reduced the price.

Email me if you're interested.

JeremyW964

Drive both - I did and it was easy for me to go with the 964. That extra push in the small of your back makes it all worth while!

I think it's pretty funny that people talk bad about the early 964's and their oil leaks. Out of the 5 cars I looked at that were 3.2's 3 out of the five had some sort of oil leak!

Have ANY 911 checked out first. As much as the 87-89 cars are overvalued right now, the early 964's are undervalued. Good luck!

Jay H

Last year I traded my '86 Carrera in for a 1990 C2. Here's what I've noticed between these two very different (but similar) 911's:

The 3.6 liter 964 motor is just simply addicting. There is considerably more power and torque in the 964 cars (as you would expect).
The 964’s have a ventilation system that does work.
The 964’s are much more refined (that can be good or bad). I'd take a 964 over the older 911's for daily driving.
The 964 models are quieter inside the cabin since Porsche had to make the car comply with more strict noise emissions all over the world.
I expect to pay more for maintenance. As noted above, more complicated car = more things to break = more money spent maintaining it.
Did I mention that the 3.6-liter motor is addicting?

That being said, I still miss my ’86 and it’s simplicity. My ’86 felt a bit more raw compared to my 964. The non-power steering gave great feedback and the motor sounds were fantastic. Things like this are still there in the 964, but just a bit more muted. Maintenance was a little easier for me. I could almost change the plugs on the ’86 blindfolded. Now, I let my mechanic change plugs and wrestle with removing the exhaust.

The 964’s may experience more depreciation, where as the older Carrera’s seem to be a little more stable right now. Any older 911 is going to cost you money to maintain properly. I would assume the 964’s 3.6 will give the same reliability as any other previous 911 motor (maybe not the 2.7 motors&#8230 . Jeremy’s right, the 964’s seem to be a bit undervalued for what you get. You really have to drive both models to find out what suits you best.

Hope this helps a little,
Jay
90 964

Jacks911

Gee Wiz,

Another 964 owner (soon) in the Northwest!
I just answered Kurts inquiry about pricing in the Seattle area. If my read is on target you should not pay more than $25,000 to $28,000 with that mileage unless it's perfect? You have lots of negotiating power in the Seattle area today...we just had our first Snow!
I had the same choice last year ... both great cars ... but unless you want to autoX or club race DE's ... the ABS/Airbags/PS/autoAIR&Heater/3.6 ...all add up to a much better road car for the northwest (in My H.O.), and for not many $$$ more.

Good Luck

sbach50

Being new to the board, I don't know the etiquette, but I just want to thank you all who replied for your help. Conflicting opinions and experiences only demonstrate the necessity for due diligence and deciding what attributes matter most to me, but I do feel I'm learning what the issues and trade-offs are for each series. So I will hopefully be less likely to make a mistake.

Thanks again. This is a really great resource!