Big Reds
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Massachusetts
Big Reds
What are big reds? Are they the brakes from a Turbo or are they an aftermarket brand? How do they differ from my stock brakes on my 1990 C2? Are there any particular brake upgrades anyone recommends for the C2?
Race Car
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,547
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From: Switzerland
Big reds are the Brembo-supplied brakes for the turbo. These can be purchased as an upgrade from Porsche or other vendors (most tuners offer them). Your C2 has discs with a diameter of 298 mm (front) and 299 mm (rear). The big reds (color of the calipers) have 322 mm/299 mm diameters. Thickness is 28/24 mm vs 32/28 mm. I find them terrific. The discs on the big reds are also drilled with small holes to aid cooling (only became standard on the stock 911 with the 993)
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Joined: May 2001
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From: TX
Mike,
Unless you have a unique situation (you spend alot of time on the track), you might want to upgrade your rear calipers to those used on the 92-94 C2's and all C4's (quad piston vs dual piston on the 90-91 C2). With that combination, you'll have quite a good braking system. Larger brakes won't stop you quicker, however, they will give you better heat sinks (thicker rotors) meaning less often bleeding. If you have 16" wheels, I believe most big red brake upgrades require at least 17" wheels.
If you decide to upgrade, I'd recommend Porsche rotors that have cast-in holes (as 993RS mentioned). Don't use rotors with drilled holes, as they tend to crack much quicker than Porsche rotors with cast-in holes (although they will crack between the holes too, just not as quickly). When I had Turbo rotors, I had them cryogenically treated, to further delay the inevitable cracking.
Unless you have a unique situation (you spend alot of time on the track), you might want to upgrade your rear calipers to those used on the 92-94 C2's and all C4's (quad piston vs dual piston on the 90-91 C2). With that combination, you'll have quite a good braking system. Larger brakes won't stop you quicker, however, they will give you better heat sinks (thicker rotors) meaning less often bleeding. If you have 16" wheels, I believe most big red brake upgrades require at least 17" wheels.
If you decide to upgrade, I'd recommend Porsche rotors that have cast-in holes (as 993RS mentioned). Don't use rotors with drilled holes, as they tend to crack much quicker than Porsche rotors with cast-in holes (although they will crack between the holes too, just not as quickly). When I had Turbo rotors, I had them cryogenically treated, to further delay the inevitable cracking.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 320
Likes: 3
From: Vienna, St. Gallen, Stuttgart - Europe
I have been thinking about upgrading to Big Reds, too. However, I am a bit confused concerning the amount of modification necessary.
Do you really have to use the front suspension of a 964 RS or Turbo or is it a straight fit using an adapter as offered by e.g. FVD or Cargraphic?
Thanks,
Anatol
1991 C2
Do you really have to use the front suspension of a 964 RS or Turbo or is it a straight fit using an adapter as offered by e.g. FVD or Cargraphic?
Thanks,
Anatol
1991 C2
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,706
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From: Virginia Beach, Va.
As I have just performed this modification to my '91 C2...I'll answer some of these questions.
First of all, NO, you do not have to modify any suspension components. To put Big Red calipers on the front of your 964, you only need to purchase the calipers, 965 rotors and a pair of caliper adapters...available from several sources from $125-$175.
The conversion is fairly straightforward with removing your original calipers, installing the adapters...then bolting the calipers to the adapters (I found that to be the easiest way). Your original brake lines (on a 964) screw right into the caliper without modification - as I no longer use brake pad wear sensors, I dunno if those will work as well, but assume they will.
Lastly, YES, you do have to use 17" wheels...and some 17" wheels like the 3-piece BBS may not provide enough clearance.
Overall, I like the conversion, less pedal effort in the braking zone and instead of wearing out a set of pads every weekend...it looks like I'll get 2-3 weekends out of a set. That benefit alone will pay for my upgrade!
...not to mention how I shouldn't have to change out my front rotors every 4-5 weekends, I suspect they'll last 8-10?? I dunno, but if they last TWO weekends longer than the originals...again, they'll pay for themselves.
As Bill mentioned, I would only perform this upgrade if you are using the car on the track...otherwise, your factory 964 brakes are PLENTY!
First of all, NO, you do not have to modify any suspension components. To put Big Red calipers on the front of your 964, you only need to purchase the calipers, 965 rotors and a pair of caliper adapters...available from several sources from $125-$175.
The conversion is fairly straightforward with removing your original calipers, installing the adapters...then bolting the calipers to the adapters (I found that to be the easiest way). Your original brake lines (on a 964) screw right into the caliper without modification - as I no longer use brake pad wear sensors, I dunno if those will work as well, but assume they will.
Lastly, YES, you do have to use 17" wheels...and some 17" wheels like the 3-piece BBS may not provide enough clearance.
Overall, I like the conversion, less pedal effort in the braking zone and instead of wearing out a set of pads every weekend...it looks like I'll get 2-3 weekends out of a set. That benefit alone will pay for my upgrade!
...not to mention how I shouldn't have to change out my front rotors every 4-5 weekends, I suspect they'll last 8-10?? I dunno, but if they last TWO weekends longer than the originals...again, they'll pay for themselves.
As Bill mentioned, I would only perform this upgrade if you are using the car on the track...otherwise, your factory 964 brakes are PLENTY!
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: Montreal, QC
Hi Mike,
I too, as a recent newby, was quick to consider the Big Red upgrade.
On the advice of a well-known local tuner, however, and now based on my own (albeit limited) experience with my car, including one DE, I'll keep the 5 grand (Canadian) in my pocket.
Unless, as Jeff said, you plan on LIVING on the track, the stock brakes are all you'll ever really need!
Happy motoring (and stopping)!
Marc
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
I too, as a recent newby, was quick to consider the Big Red upgrade.
On the advice of a well-known local tuner, however, and now based on my own (albeit limited) experience with my car, including one DE, I'll keep the 5 grand (Canadian) in my pocket.
Unless, as Jeff said, you plan on LIVING on the track, the stock brakes are all you'll ever really need!
Happy motoring (and stopping)!
Marc
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
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Drifting
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 5
From: Leeds, where I have run into this many lamp
Jeff
been following the TV mini-series that is "Jeff's brake dilemma" with much interest and I'm glad to hear that whatever you did is gonna pay for itself with less pad & disc (you guys call em rotors)changes.
Also glad to find that, since I don't track, I won't need to fork out a load of dosh for biger brakes.
Bye.
been following the TV mini-series that is "Jeff's brake dilemma" with much interest and I'm glad to hear that whatever you did is gonna pay for itself with less pad & disc (you guys call em rotors)changes.
Also glad to find that, since I don't track, I won't need to fork out a load of dosh for biger brakes.
Bye.
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