joey bagadonuts

About a year ago, I started a similar discussion to share some of my autocross experiences and encourage some dialog. Here's an update:

New Driver, Same Ending
Once again, I witnessed a marvelous display of driving skill. It occurred at Sunday's Chicago Region PCA autox and involved my very own C4. Unfortunately, I wasn't the one driving.

One of my buddies, Mike, was running the event but his modified C2 was out of action. He would've been fine just sitting it out but I thought the hard work put into running the event merited some sort of reward, so I offered him a slot as guest driver in my car. Well, you can imagine what happened next.

Okay, not only did he beat my best time on his very first run, he then went on to knock a few more seconds off each lap and challenge for FTD. The competition included a couple of 2,400-lb, RS-spec'd vintage racecars, Boxsters and a host of lighter, more powerful cars. Officially, Mike finished fourth overall and within a second of all the racecars. His best time, however, was actually 0.2 seconds faster than any time posted--only one little tap cost him the title.

Silver Lining
The absolute best thing about getting whipped by someone in your own car is finding out what it's capable of. It's kind of like letting Derek Bell take a turn behind the wheel at a track day, only without the high-speed risks.

As some of you may be aware, the C4 is usually regarded as too heavy or "understeery" to be competitive in autocross. So I thought I was doing pretty good to crack into the Top 10 with the odds stacked against me like they were. Of course, I may have left a few tenths on the table, I thought, but I was definitely close to maxing my car's potential, right? Guess not.

ljugete

95% Driver and 5% Car!

Congrats Joey!

I could'nt make it but sounds like you had a blast.

BGLeduc

No doubt about it....driver over car every time.

Its always good (well for most ego's, anyway) to get spanked in your own car. It helps you to stop obsessing over go fast parts, and start obsessing over the nut that holds the wheel. Or it will make you seek out other pursuits where ego bruising is less painful (OSB..Other Sports Beckon as the Bondurant guys describe those attendees with grand plans but less than grand talent).

The best money anyone ever spent on this stuff is to go to a driving school. I have personally been to Bondurant (not really autocross specific, but there is an autocross course during the 3 day school), and took two Evolution Autocross schools.

Lessons learned there stay with you forever (even if you don't always execute them properly!), as opposed to the latest go-fast stuff that sticks around only until you sell it on e-bay.

For less than the price of a couple R Tires, the Evolution schools will give you one on one seat time with a host of SCCA National Champs. It is humbling, but you learn so much in such a short time. If you are even remotely serious about autocross, its a no brainer to get enrolled in a proper school.

And surely there are equivalent schools for those more inclined to do track events.

Or you can blow your wad on a new DME chip (or whatever twirls your propeller), and still get spanked by the local hot shoe

BGL

PC2

Joey,

I know how it feels when someone else can drive our car faster. One time I told my instructor that I wan't able to turn in good lap times because of the Tiptronic transmission. Well, quess what, he drove my car and prooved me wrong. In fact he's lap time, with my car, was 0.5 secs. faster than with he's E36 M3. After that event I stopped whinning about the TIP and started focusing on my skills.

joey bagadonuts

Frank, It's too bad you couldn't make it. It was a glorious day and tons of fun.

Brian, Yup, more work on the driver is the right call. That's a great suggestion about instruction, too. I've made nice, consistent progress over the last few years but I'm wondering if some fresh perspective might not prove beneficial.

Now, THAT I find quite amazing because, IMHO, the E36 M3 seems like a car that most people can drive well and an extremely strong autocrosser in the right hands. And then this instructor went faster in YOUR car?

I guess we're in the same boat, Peter. Now that someone has shown me that I drive the fastest car in the Region, I've got no more excuses: Either get better or start Club Racing!

And FWIW, my car was running on 225/255 17" MPSC's, 36 psi COLD all around and a full tank (at lest 3,400 lbs with driver). Sway bars were set at full stiff at the rear and one position shy of full soft up front. Evidently, this isn't a bad setup for my car.

BGLeduc

Here's a link to the Evolution School folks:

http://www.autocross.com/evolution/

I have no affiliation, other than being a very happy customer, and being somewhat acquainted with a couple of the instructors.

BGL

BGLeduc

Some of the techniques that are taught are easy to understand, but bloody difficult to put into practice.

"Looking Ahead" is for me one of the toughest things to do consistently. The point is that at any given time you want to be looking a couple corner's ahead, which means that when you are going through a corner, you are relying on your peripheral vision to place the car and avoid pylons. Sounds easy until you try it, and in mid corner have this panic attack that you are about to kill a cone. You then divert your vision to your present location, and now find that you have drifted off line and are no longer set up for the corners ahead.

The Bondurant guys had us driving counter clockwise around on a short oval, with the instruction that you always want to be looking out the drivers side widow...not the windshield.

Next time you see a magazine photo of an F1 car in mid corner, notice which way the driver is looking; usually at 45 degrees to the direction of travel....looking ahead to the next corner.

BGL

PC2

I forgot to mentioned that he's previous car was a 911SC. So either he's faster in a Porsche or someone rigged the timer to shut me up.

JoeW

I know I'm a little late to the conversation, but a similar thing happened to me last weekend. Our local Class 10 usually has two guys at the top (not me, for sure ... I seem to plan on being a novice for the forseeable future.), one in a RSA with track suspension and R compounds and lots of the good stuff, vs. (Driving Lesson #1) a stock C2 with street tires driven by the guy who Usually wins. So you figure the guy with the street tread (who usually posts here, btw) is giving away a couple of seconds each run and still winning consistently.

But last weekend there was a new guy. I'm new so didn't recognize him but during the driver's meeting I saw the two leaders I mentioned above and they had long faces ... it seems this guy shows up for one event a year and they knew what to expect. (Drivfing Lesson #2) Sure, he went out and easily beat them both by more than 3 seconds! He used to drive a lot, he said, but now has kids, yadda yadda yadda. He's very smooth.

I was also talking to a Boxster woman who just took the level 3 course from Evolution. (Driving Lesson #3) They spend most of the course, she says, on looking ahead -- They cover the bottom half of each student's windshield so the driver literally can't look close ... and then do the drills. Not a bad idea -- maybe I could do the next autoX that way! I need a new excuse!!!

Joe

BGLeduc

Nice story Joe...if I might ask, where abouts in Central Mass?

I was born and raised in Southbridge (was there until '93), and learned to Autocross with NER SCCA and NESSC at the Orange Airport.

I know I sound like a commercial, but Evolution is the hands down best bang for the buck that you will ever get in autocross instruction.

Best Regards,

BGL

JoeW

Hi BGL, I don't want to hijack the thread too OT, so I'll send you a PM.

But you agree with everyone I've spoken with about Evolution -- it's a shame there's nothing really available in the way of a school right now, personally. I feel like I'm now ready to actually get benefits from instruction. I know, for example, there's lots of time left in the slaloms, and I know I'm not going hard enough in the offsets ... but .... as usual in Red Sox land: "Wait'll next year!!!"

Joe

JasonAndreas

BGL,
did you graduate from Shepherd Hill in 93?

JoeW,
Once again I met you car (at Devens this time) and completely forgot to put two and two together.

BGLeduc

LOL.....I still carry emotional scars relating to Bill Buckner in'86!

Then again, although they did not win, Carlton Fiske's homer in '75 (hope I got that right) was the greatest moment in all of sports.

Jason - Southbridge High '78....I am an old geezer!

BGL

JoeW

Well, now Joey's thread is shot to hell we've gone so far Apologies -- will someone help pull this back? I'm as blank on that as on meeting you, Jason. Apologies. Can you do something to help me refresh?

This means there were at least 4 'Lister's at the last NER PCA event: me and you, Eric Kessel (black C2) and investlt (green targa). Maybe we should meet -- is there a secred Rennlist handshake?

Oh, forget it ... I'd never remember what it was. BGL claims to be a geezer; compared to him, I'm a geezer god

Does this mean you went to Shepher Hill, Jason?

Joe

JasonAndreas

No, Douglas '91 (even more podunk)...


back on-topic;
I auto-x'ed for one lap in the rain at Orange airport in the RSA in 94 (2 seconds off FTD (excluding Bill Goodales time) and about 1/2 second faster than THE chevette and two seconds slower than the bone-stock CRXs...