Christers car - first impressions
06-28-2004, 08:33 AM
#1
Race Car
Thread Starter
Christers car - first impressions
Hi,
I was fortunate enough (?) to meet up with Christer on Sunday so got to see the car "in the flesh" so to speak. Hopefully, he won't object to my first impressions being posted here.
First impressions, just walking up to the car was the wheels. I wasn't convinced I liked them when I saw photos of them on the car - but seeing them for real I did. When you actually see them up close they look quite a simple design (maybe because they are quite angular) but they look good. Surprisingly, they also don't look like a tight fit at all - guess the low profile tyres help. I do think some nice centre caps might make them look a bit better, but I guess the hole in the middle of the wheels helps reduce unsprung weight.....
Christer started the car up while we were standing by it. At first, I thought the idle was uneven, but in fact it's not. The sound kind of cycles every second or so, but it's very regular and the idle is steady. He also gave it a brief rev up while we were standing there - and it was noticeable that the revs changed very quickly.
We then drove off somewhere (mostly at 40mph due to idiot Sunday drivers) and on the odd occasions when I did floor it I could see that he was right behind me - not bad for a car that hasn't been mapped and is still being run in.
I got taken out briefly in it - and was impressed. When Christer put his foot down from a steady 3-4Krpm, it really moved - it didn't feel like I was pushed back into the seat like I would expect with mine - more that I was kicked back. More than anything, it reminded me of the second turbo kicking in on the TT Supra I used to have (but obviously, without the lag since it just happens whenever he puts his foot down). There is a bit of induction roar, which Christer liked and I wasn't that keen on - but I suspect I'm in the minority there because I also don't like the drilled airbox sound.
Later in the day, when I followed Christer it was obvious that his car was slightly quicker than mine. This suggests to me that some of the "kick" that I experienced when I was in the passenger seat might be partly due to the LWF - or maybe just because of better fuelling from the Motec - because at this stage the acceleration didn't seem that much greater than mine (it definitely was quicker, but not by a lot) but as a passenger it felt a lot more instant.
Bearing in mind that this is a car where the mapping hasn't been done properly yet, the ignition has been retarded slightly while it's being run in, and Christer wasn't taking it beyond about 5K rpm (while I was red lining mine to keep up) I was pretty impressed. After the next trip to 9M I think this is going to be a seriously quick car. I got the impression that it's very strong and pretty quick now (a stock 964 can just keep up but is clearly a bit slower) but it seemed to me that there is a whole lot more to come. Even once he can use more revs in the running in period I think it's going to be pretty quick - once he's had the mapping sorted I think it will be amazing.
I was fortunate enough (?) to meet up with Christer on Sunday so got to see the car "in the flesh" so to speak. Hopefully, he won't object to my first impressions being posted here.
First impressions, just walking up to the car was the wheels. I wasn't convinced I liked them when I saw photos of them on the car - but seeing them for real I did. When you actually see them up close they look quite a simple design (maybe because they are quite angular) but they look good. Surprisingly, they also don't look like a tight fit at all - guess the low profile tyres help. I do think some nice centre caps might make them look a bit better, but I guess the hole in the middle of the wheels helps reduce unsprung weight.....
Christer started the car up while we were standing by it. At first, I thought the idle was uneven, but in fact it's not. The sound kind of cycles every second or so, but it's very regular and the idle is steady. He also gave it a brief rev up while we were standing there - and it was noticeable that the revs changed very quickly.
We then drove off somewhere (mostly at 40mph due to idiot Sunday drivers) and on the odd occasions when I did floor it I could see that he was right behind me - not bad for a car that hasn't been mapped and is still being run in.
I got taken out briefly in it - and was impressed. When Christer put his foot down from a steady 3-4Krpm, it really moved - it didn't feel like I was pushed back into the seat like I would expect with mine - more that I was kicked back. More than anything, it reminded me of the second turbo kicking in on the TT Supra I used to have (but obviously, without the lag since it just happens whenever he puts his foot down). There is a bit of induction roar, which Christer liked and I wasn't that keen on - but I suspect I'm in the minority there because I also don't like the drilled airbox sound.
Later in the day, when I followed Christer it was obvious that his car was slightly quicker than mine. This suggests to me that some of the "kick" that I experienced when I was in the passenger seat might be partly due to the LWF - or maybe just because of better fuelling from the Motec - because at this stage the acceleration didn't seem that much greater than mine (it definitely was quicker, but not by a lot) but as a passenger it felt a lot more instant.
Bearing in mind that this is a car where the mapping hasn't been done properly yet, the ignition has been retarded slightly while it's being run in, and Christer wasn't taking it beyond about 5K rpm (while I was red lining mine to keep up) I was pretty impressed. After the next trip to 9M I think this is going to be a seriously quick car. I got the impression that it's very strong and pretty quick now (a stock 964 can just keep up but is clearly a bit slower) but it seemed to me that there is a whole lot more to come. Even once he can use more revs in the running in period I think it's going to be pretty quick - once he's had the mapping sorted I think it will be amazing.
06-28-2004, 11:12 AM
#2
Hi Dave
It didn't cross my mind that you would want to give your opinion to Rennlist, but of course I don't mind. I think you confirm what I have belived to be the case so far. Overall, I think the car as it stands now shifting at 5500rpm or so is quicker than a standard car - not a lot, but definitely a bit quicker. The engine will rev to 7500rpm after run in, so even with the current map it would be substantially quicker. Colin estimated around 320fwhp as it is now (of course I am not getting near that shifting early) but that would seem about right.
Also, as stated before peak torque looks like it will be around 5800rpm, so I am relieved to note that the car has not lost any low-end grunt - although in this tune, i don't think it has gained much either below 3000-3500. I guess only time and the dyno will tell....
It didn't cross my mind that you would want to give your opinion to Rennlist, but of course I don't mind. I think you confirm what I have belived to be the case so far. Overall, I think the car as it stands now shifting at 5500rpm or so is quicker than a standard car - not a lot, but definitely a bit quicker. The engine will rev to 7500rpm after run in, so even with the current map it would be substantially quicker. Colin estimated around 320fwhp as it is now (of course I am not getting near that shifting early) but that would seem about right.
Also, as stated before peak torque looks like it will be around 5800rpm, so I am relieved to note that the car has not lost any low-end grunt - although in this tune, i don't think it has gained much either below 3000-3500. I guess only time and the dyno will tell....
06-28-2004, 11:32 AM
#4
Doug, I believe so - the ones used in mine are much longer duration than the standard items. Driveability is a slight issue at the moment but will be largely sorted out once the mapping can be done. Flexibility is not an issue, on even throttle the car will pull cleanly from below 1500rpm's, but it is the point where trailing throttle becomes positive throttle that i get a slight jerk at low revs (and would result in some limited kangaroo hopping if it was allowed to continue without applying alittle more gas)...
06-28-2004, 12:56 PM
#5
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Why not use a little applied physics?
Lets say that Christer's car is a little quicker at 5500rpm than a standard car with 260bhp and therefore is currently making around 280 at the flywheel. If we guess that the torque at 5500 is maybe 10% more than at 7200, the engine should produce 90% x 280 x 7000/5000 or 362bhp. I would guess that the engine currently makes around 400-420Nm, although I would not be suprised at more once mapped.
From comments made by other customers with our Motec conversions, the cars never feel quick because the torque delivery is a lot smoother than expected, so giving a constant push in the back through to the redline rather than a sudden snap. They thus do not feel powerful until measured against ground speed acceleration, whereby the rate of change of speed gives the game away.
The Kangarooing around idle can easily be resolved, usually requiring no more than a little ignition mapping to reduce advance gains in between map sites. I'll be looking forward to sorting it out and having it on the dyno for you Christer.
Lets say that Christer's car is a little quicker at 5500rpm than a standard car with 260bhp and therefore is currently making around 280 at the flywheel. If we guess that the torque at 5500 is maybe 10% more than at 7200, the engine should produce 90% x 280 x 7000/5000 or 362bhp. I would guess that the engine currently makes around 400-420Nm, although I would not be suprised at more once mapped.
From comments made by other customers with our Motec conversions, the cars never feel quick because the torque delivery is a lot smoother than expected, so giving a constant push in the back through to the redline rather than a sudden snap. They thus do not feel powerful until measured against ground speed acceleration, whereby the rate of change of speed gives the game away.
The Kangarooing around idle can easily be resolved, usually requiring no more than a little ignition mapping to reduce advance gains in between map sites. I'll be looking forward to sorting it out and having it on the dyno for you Christer.
06-29-2004, 04:24 AM
#6
Colin
Many thanks for your input, I also look forward to coming back so we can actually see what we have achieved. I hope the exhaust and intake do not cause too many problems at the top end.
In order to assist with the running in, I am actually planning a trip back to Norway via Denmark so that should add a few hundred miles...at least.
(as well as possibly a trip to the 'Ring this weekend - don't worry Colin, the rev limit will be strictly observed... )
I wonder if I can get Super Unleaded in Nordic? Which octane booster do you use in an emergency?
Christer
Many thanks for your input, I also look forward to coming back so we can actually see what we have achieved. I hope the exhaust and intake do not cause too many problems at the top end.
In order to assist with the running in, I am actually planning a trip back to Norway via Denmark so that should add a few hundred miles...at least.
(as well as possibly a trip to the 'Ring this weekend - don't worry Colin, the rev limit will be strictly observed... )I wonder if I can get Super Unleaded in Nordic? Which octane booster do you use in an emergency?
Christer
06-30-2004, 06:52 PM
#7
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98 octane super unleaded are still available from most gas stations here in Norway.. at least for now. I have never bought
I live in the small town called Larvik btw..
there's a ferry connection to Fredrikshavn, Denmark from here.
I would guess you will meet some porsches on your trip, plenty of porsches here in Norway.
Actually there are some porsches around where I live too..but not too many 964s ... just 4 or 5 I believe.. but one of those is a Ruf (with Ruf serial number) Evo (?) with 425hp plus a very powerful Gemballa tuned convertible.
I live in the small town called Larvik btw..
there's a ferry connection to Fredrikshavn, Denmark from here.
I would guess you will meet some porsches on your trip, plenty of porsches here in Norway.
Actually there are some porsches around where I live too..but not too many 964s ... just 4 or 5 I believe.. but one of those is a Ruf (with Ruf serial number) Evo (?) with 425hp plus a very powerful Gemballa tuned convertible.
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07-01-2004, 04:18 AM
#8
Originally posted by 964c2
98 octane super unleaded are still available from most gas stations here in Norway.. at least for now. I have never bought
I live in the small town called Larvik btw..
there's a ferry connection to Fredrikshavn, Denmark from here.
I would guess you will meet some porsches on your trip, plenty of porsches here in Norway.
Actually there are some porsches around where I live too..but not too many 964s ... just 4 or 5 I believe.. but one of those is a Ruf (with Ruf serial number) Evo (?) with 425hp plus a very powerful Gemballa tuned convertible.
98 octane super unleaded are still available from most gas stations here in Norway.. at least for now. I have never bought
I live in the small town called Larvik btw..
there's a ferry connection to Fredrikshavn, Denmark from here.
I would guess you will meet some porsches on your trip, plenty of porsches here in Norway.
Actually there are some porsches around where I live too..but not too many 964s ... just 4 or 5 I believe.. but one of those is a Ruf (with Ruf serial number) Evo (?) with 425hp plus a very powerful Gemballa tuned convertible.
It has been some time since I drove in Norway/Scandinavia even though I go back regularly - that's why I asked. I'll get some octane boosters for the trip anyway. I fancy the ferry from Hirtshals as I have family in Kristiansand...
07-01-2004, 05:41 AM
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ok.
Now I remember... there was a discussion about Norway or something several years ago on one of the email lists..
You may be able to find octane boosters at specialists shops here in Norway, the riceboy/ VAG crowd are everywhere.. Neon and alu racing spoilers(or wings?) everywhere..
It's raining like crazy here btw. Good thing I have these new goodyear F1's installed
Now I remember...
there was a discussion about Norway or something several years ago on one of the email lists..You may be able to find octane boosters at specialists shops here in Norway, the riceboy/ VAG crowd are everywhere.. Neon and alu racing spoilers(or wings?) everywhere..
It's raining like crazy here btw. Good thing I have these new goodyear F1's installed