chouwalker

I'm looking at this car tomorrow:
https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5620775250.html

Does this look like a good car?

Is this a reasonable price?

I love 951s, but I don't know the market very well and I don't want to be taken advantage of.

Any and all advice or opinions are welcome.

geno

Check his records for the last waterpump/timing belt job.
Also look into the last time the clutch was done.

Those are the 2 big surprises you really don't want. Drive it and see how it feels. If it seems good enough to buy, pay for a PPI. Then buy it once you really know the current condition.

chouwalker

@Geno - The timing belt and water pump have been done. The clutch has not been done. He's says the clutch is fine at this time.

If the car is what he says it is, is that a decent price? I'm not trying to low ball the guy, but I also don't want to overpay. I just want to know if what's a fair price. Of course, if that's a great price, I'd like to hear that the most!

geno

If everything seems great, take it for a PPI.
It's unbiased. It's cost is inconsequential in the long run.
If everything is still fine then.... I'd think the price is decent. Unmolested, maintained, low miles. Everything is kind of up in the air with these cars as far as pricing goes. Fewer and fewer original cars. I'd compare it to some ebay cars and gather what you can about his price.

It's not a steal. He's not robbing you. You maybe able to save some money still though.

rsabeebe

if everything were to check out - mechanical, paint/body, interior, records - that's not an unreasonable price based on mileage. the '86 is at the bottom of the value range, but it's only a 4 year run. i'm in the corner that believes this is still a good value at this price. the cars are fun, engaging, and the design has held up very well. have some funds available for deferred maintenance, even if the PPI goes well. also, get a good PPI - don't shop price on a PPI. some do a great job and other places can miss a ton of stuff. i like an indy for this - larger places and dealers tend to overlook stuff far more than a small dedicated shop. good luck.

gpr8er

Nice car. The price is certainly not out of line for the condition and mileage. But just remember this is a 30 year old Porsche with all it's idiosyncrasies. You can count on all the rubber hoses in the engine compartment will need replacement. First all the fuel lines should be done before you drive it. Finding someone that can do an adequate PPI is really questionable because of the age of these cars. Too many specific things you want to know. Pull the battery out of the car and thoroughly check the condition of the metal where it sits.

chouwalker

All the hoses were replaced in 2008 (owner has receipt to prove it), so I think I'm good on that front. It is understood that 30-yr old car will need maintenance going forward.

bumflick

3 years ago, i bought an 86 951. Same color combo as this. No LSD, no sport seats, so very comparable.

Cons:
Driver's seat was ripped,
Had about 40k more miles.
Door cards had been cut to install 6.5 speakers (which were removed for sale)
Rear carpet had been cut up to install subwoofers in wheel wells (which were removed for sale)
Unknown timing on timing belt / water pump service
Most likely original clutch

Pros:
The previous owner had already deleted the cat and put in in 3" exhaust from downpipe back.
Rear hatch had been recently resealed

I put about $1k into it for new tires, oil change and replaced a leaking power steering high pressure line. Even with my repairs, I paid less than half of what is being asked.

Drove it from Dallas to Atlanta that night. No major issues.

rsabeebe

it sounds like a well described car and well written ad. the lindsey exhaust is nice - a plus if it were me. more than likely the 3" diameter. since he has records going back to 2002, it will be easy to confirm the mileage.

the price is certainly a bit odd. i wouldn't pay more than $14,865.

TurnerJ

Looks good. I'd say mileage is accurate. In my experience a stock, cared for, car like this would be pretty light on maintenance.

Humboldtgrin

It's not a good idea to post such good deals with Lart lerking around. You know he already called them right? I don't even have to be told that to know that has happened. Move swiftly if you want it. Or the world may loose it forever.

chouwalker

I looked at the car and it seems to be as described in the ad:
https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/5620775250.html

The owner listed everything he knew (or at least admitted) was wrong with car:
- ding on the rocker panel in front of the passenger side rear wheel (shows in one of the photos)
- scuff on driver side front at bottom of nose
- chip in one of the fog lights
- paint damage on lower valence behind passenger side rear wheel
- paint chips on front professionally touched up
- turn signal does not cancel after left turn
- missing air pump
- has original radio but it does not play tapes (tape player eats them instead), however owner has working replacement original radio (not installed)
- cheesy aftermarket equalizer installed where the cubby should be below the radio (I would definitely replace that with the original cubby).
- hinge on center console not broken, but very fragile
- light on original key nor working (no bulb)
- only one original key
- timing belt and water pump have less than 7k mi on them, but last replaced 9 years ago (should I replace them based on age, even with the low miles?)

The car drives great (pulls strong, stops and turns just like it ought to). The Lindsey exhaust pops and burbles sometimes on throttle lift. Is that a concern, or normal?

The AC was converted and blows very cold.

The interior is very nice (9/10). The dash looks perfect, substantiating the owner's claim that it has always been garaged. There is some wear on the driver seat bolster, but at least it's not ripped or torn.

I found a similar car that sold on bringatrailer.com which suggests that the asking price is a pretty good deal. This seems like pretty much the same car and sold for $20,400: http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1986-944-turbo/ That car maybe a bit nicer, but not $6K nicer, is it?

The owner declined an offer for $13k versus the $14,872 asking price.

The owner is not willing to budge much on price. He says he hasn't had it listed long enough to accept much below asking. Should I just bite the bullet and pay the best price I can get, even if it's not much below the asking price?

Spending so much money on a 30-year old car makes me nervous. Advice please!

Matt O.

chou,

If that car is as described, and if you looked at it and the best you could tell is that the miles are true...

Do not balk at $1,872. Just give him his asking price. That car will not depreciate. Maybe you "could" have got it for $13,500, but in a year or two it will be worth even more than what you paid.

You have to understand with these Turbos, low mileage examples in stock condition are becoming harder and harder to come by. Honestly, I'm surprised no one has bought it out from under you.

The exhaust will pop like that, it should sound "cool". That is, if it sounds like it's in pain thats probably not right. It just has less back pressure than the stock exhaust/cat. Lindsey is a great exhaust, and a great sounding exhaust.

Do it if you want it. If you don't want a 944 Turbo, don't do it. If you have been looking and looking and looking and you found this one, by first glance it appears to be a great example. Resell red over black, low miles, well maintained by same owner since 2002. Win.

Mine has 57K and I would laugh at someone if they offered me $14,872 for it. No way.

PS
Yes, replace timing-belt on age, not just miles. Offer him $14k and tell him you gotta do the timing-belt, he might have built that into his asking price...

chouwalker

How much does it cost to do the timing belt and water pump at a decent shop? Maybe I'll just offer the asking price less the cost of that work.

Dkritz944

14-15k for a 951...pretty damn steep if you ask me...I got the **** flamed out of me at the Pelican forums for looking at a 1988 951 for 9k! But over there, if you spend more than 4K on one your nuts, so take that for what it is worth...
Mine has 130k on it. But sport seats as well. And lsd. The interior of my car is a 8.5 out of 10. Exterior is 7 out of 10. The steering rack needed replaced. Along with a timing/balance. And did the oil pan gasket and bearings while I was ripping into it. I'm going through the fuel lines now and other little cosmetic things. Car is rock solid. I paid $5300. And put in about 3k in parts. Another 1k in labor. Not saying not to buy it. Car looks beautiful. Just saying there may be better deals out there. If you got the loot, hell, buy it!!