Hello all... I have been an avid 951 fan for many years and finally took the plunge. Believe it or not, I just acquired a '86 951 sight unseen on eBay. The shipping company is picking the car up this week and I should have it shortly. I will post pics below, but here is my question:

I spend some time (as I'm sure a lot of you do) on Bring A Trailer and i have been somewhat shocked at the prices 951's are bringing these days. It is hard to really tell what cars command the most money, but it seems to be low mileage with maintenance records and obviously late model S versions.

So, with the values currently spiking, I'm assuming as a direct relation to the air cooled cars, what are your guys plans for your cars? I always had intentions of buying a 951 to turn into a weekend toy and HPDE car, but I want to make sure I'm not shooting myself in the foot by modifying my new car.

Speaking of the car, it is currently a bit of a basket case but I got it for a song. Here are some pics and details of my $2,200 starting point ($2,700 with shipping):

"CLEAN CAR FAX - NO ACCIDENT HISTORY- CONFIRMED LOW MILES
Starts and run but needs mechanical and cosmetic attention.
if you know these cars this might be a good candidate for restoration.

The Good

88k miles
The car performance is stock
it has Fuchs wheels which are rare and many Porsche 911 guys buy these up for their track cars. The set of wheels is worth about $1500 alone.
New driver seat leather (stock) from a low mileage 944 turbo (needs to be put on ) - passenger seat is mint
New Sparco steering wheel
New Sparco shift ****
New Sparco shift boot
New Porsche floot mats
New cap and rotor
New spark plugs
Full synthetic oil change ($105)
New fuel pump
Timing belt and tensioners/pullies replaced
New fuel filter
New Thermostat
New stock blow off valve
carpet is black and super clean as seen in the pics

The Bad

Head leaking coolant, leaking oil onto timing belt
Dents/Dings - down both sides of the car and hood
Scratches on rear bumper, passenger side, front fenders and Front bumper
Passenger door does not align well with roof or front fender, there is a noticeable crack in the A-pillar where the door mounts to
Odometer does not work - Carfax confirmed low Miles
Dashboard cracked and missing right lower leather covering and side trim piece

The rear tail section is merely a vinyl sticker. peel it off and its back to stock. Not a big deal. Rear tail lights are aftermarket. Take them out and put the stock ones in.
Anyone expecting a perfect exterior on the car as I have stated, it has flaws in the paint... if you are looking to restore this car or make it show worthy, I would absolutely do the paint work.... It looks good from a few feet away but there are small flaws and it would need to be painted again to be absolutely perfect"

 

I was looking at that car since it was listed first I couldn't believe that the guys that you bought it for paid 5k for it and sold it for less than 3k that's a net loss of 2k in a few weeks, anyway it will require lot f work bring the car to a good resale value, I personally would have parted that car, but that's my business anyway.

 

I'm definitely not scared of a project and have set aside plenty of time and garage space for it. I guess your reply answers my question, modify it and have fun with it, too far gone to be turned back into something that can command a premium. I was mainly looking at the mileage when I asked that question.

As for the PO taking a loss, I was actually unable to find the prior listing. I did have some communication with him and it didn't sound like he knew much of anything when it came to cars. He did however put me in touch with the shop that inspected the car, Provost Motorsports in NJ. I was able to talk to a gentleman there about the condition of the car and was comfortable buying it at that price.

The technician did tell me the "leaking head" is actually a damaged head and not just a head gasket. No worries, a recently rebuilt head that was o-ringed is on it's way to me.

Should be a fun project, if not infuriating at times. Wish me luck.

 

So I found the original listing and am so curious as to what happened here. The new listing has the following "good" items removed, as well as all of "the bad" stuff being added:

Rebuilt transmission, heavy duty clutch
4 piston brembo brakes and rotors
Koni adjustable shocks
New tires
New stock j boot
New stock turbo
Zero rust
No dents or dings
Includes stock parts

The seller also added all of the pictures below. I have reached out to the seller to try to get the story, but something weird definitely went down. It seems like the condition of the car was quite exaggerated during the last listing, but why wouldn't the seller (current) go back to eBay to get a refund instead of taking a loss like he did?

I'm anxious to get the car and do a thorough inspection!

 

I browsed the original ebay auction too.

When I got to the pics of the window post and the inside shot of the door post, I knew it was a goner.

That thing looks like it's had about 3-4 paint jobs, one over the other and none of them any good.

That door hinge pic...., looks like the car was hit really hard, hard enough to tear the metal above the hinge....or the metal was torn while pulling it back into shape. That's why the door and fender don't align.

The oil leaks and general lack of maintenance on the engine look like it could be an engine fire waiting to happen.

Track or street, this thing is gonna need a lot of love.

That said...., they can all be brought back.

T

 

Well it sounds like it's going to be a long year then! Thanks for the input, I'll be sure to post better pictures and my findings once the car is in my possession. I sure don't want to have to part the car out, but I'm assuming if I do there should be enough value in parts to break even.

 

Possibly.

Some of the parts are '86 only, and for those parts, availability-wise, there are a lot of them available (many more '86 cars were made), which is why I stay away from pre-'87 cars.

I have 4 944s at home..., 1 944S, 2 944 N/A race cars and a 944T race ca, all 1987 models. Owning an '86, (unless I convert it), doesn't make any sense where wheels, brakes, suspension isn't interchangeable.

Anyway, what you should do first is pull the fenders and doors and inspect the unit body for damage. Get an accurate measuring device (body specific ones are called a "tram bar" or tram gauge"). The factory measurement illustration for body measuring pick up points is available one the net (I have it if you need it). This will show you point to point where to make several measurements to insure the car is salvageable without being on a frame machine to straighten it.

This would be the #1 criteria (aside from all the car's other shortcomings) for me.

If the car unit body (chassis/tub) is not in factory spec, I'd part it.

The money spent to re-straighten a tub is not a viable investment.

If it's out of whack and you just live with it....it's possible that it will never handle on the road as it should (1 wheel corner can be carrying way more weight than a balanced car) because the factory alignment setting cannot be achieved because the car is out of that range....and that would defeat the purpose of owning the car. Track or street....this is the most important factor.

PM me if I can assist.

T

 

Thank you for the additional info, much appreciated. As for the early to late model conversion I will search the forums and see what all is entailed.

I am prepared to strip the car regardless of which route I go as I cannot live with it in it's current state. If you wouldn't mind, please PM me the pick up point measurements.

Thanks again!

 

Page 50, illustration 04 - http://www.9ss1.dk/porsche944/garage/vol3/vol3.html




T

 

Hey, no problem.

Let's assume car checks out.

#2 criteria for me when shopping car is the paint. I don;t really care if it's faded, there may be rust, dents or dings.
I only want cars that have original paint....otherwise, you don't know what is hidden under there. I am working on an '86 944T for a RL'er right now and the left rear 1/4 panel had been cut off (not using correct conventional method of drilling all the spot welds) and replaced. Not only that....they welded on a used panel off a guards red donor (the car is graphite).
Preferably, I only target single stage color cars instead of metallics that would have clear coat. Just a personal preference but I do not like colors that require clear coat. If you need to do a repair, the single stage paints are much easier to blend a repair where with metallics, you generally are forced to blend the adjacent panel and clear coat those as well just to get a decent match.

On this particular car.....there is paint on top of paint on top of paint.

What you are going to want to do eventually is bring the car back to the original primer/sealer because if you end up restoring the finish, the last thing you will want is to is to have a rock chip show three different shades previous red paint jobs, not to mention, multiple layers of paint are more prone to chip.

You could save a lot of time and labor by just finding donor doors and fenders....again, preferably black, red or white....no clear coat on factory donor parts and there is less material to worry about removing.
You can however use the ones you have and either strip them chemically or work for hours and hours with a DA sander and 80 grit paper.

The rest of the body, you are stuck with as it is all part of the unit body and is not removable in conventional terms. The roof, 1/4 panels and rear tail light panel are are welded to the chassis.

Jumping the gun on the bodywork though....., the measuring is 1st. That car was hit in the right front door post and if it wasn't at least straightened back into measurement spec, the cost to do this from jump street will make the car, economically....a parts car.

T

 

Agreed... When I said strip the car I was referring to the mechanical bits mainly. Once I confirm if the unibody is within spec of course.

While eventually stripping the paint and doing a full respray (in single stage) is in the cards, I am a mechanic at heart and not a body man.

This will not be my first major project, just my first p car. I have been in the mustang world for a long time and was just tired of living in a sea of anonymity. Good friends of mine had 944's in highschool (NA) and college (turbo) and I have been in love with them ever since.

My last project FWIW was a 89 Mustang GT which ended up with a custom single turbo kit (62mm), chromoly cage, full length subframe connectors etc etc etc.

I just got married and bought a house so I wasn't quite ready to buy my next project car, and then this popped up. Let's hope I don't regret it!

 

Change the fuel lines in the engine compartment, change the belts(balance/timing), and do a front engine reseal.

Then drive it like you stole it. If the car blows up, you can part it out and get your money back in parting.

Don't go down the rabbit hole!

 

Ha, I'm learning all about that rabbit hole right now!
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...e-restore.html

 

Ahhh, a convert.

Very good then, you have awaken from your slumber.

A project car that keeps you in the garage when it's convenient is good for a marriage....

T

 

Ha, I'd rather have a pile of bolts and a rusty shell in the garage that I can play with than spend all my time lusting over everyone else project on the internet like i have been for the past few years! Luckily she seems to be supportive, we'll see how long that lasts once she sees the cost of p-car maintenance!

Other cars / stuff I've owned and played with:

(2) Nissan 350Z's
(3) Mustangs, '89, '90, '94
(2) Harley Sportsters
Harley Night Rod w/ Trask Turbo
Toyota Tacoma
E30

If I could just take all the money I dumped into those projects and put it towards a 944 I could've bought a genuine Turbo Cup car!

Also, while I'm introducing myself, I live in Cincinnati OH. Looking forward to some Mid-Ohio PCA events, even as a spectator.