V2Rocket

Can't wait for the bubble to burst, and to buy a 951S or S2 for $10k again.

KVDR

Better load up this winter. I don't think the 944 are in a bubble - I think they climbed out of a ditch.

These are 25-30 year-old Porsches and demographics will play a role.

I like this flussig magazine article.

Hopefully we can all continue to enjoy the hobby. Worst case, we can migrate over to the 996 series.

grenadiers

My 1989 has 68K miles on it, Guards Red paint in pretty good condition, a couple small parking lot dents, chips in both DME and KLR, LR blue-top waste gate, LR boost enhancer, new vacuum hoses, reupholstered dash, with powder coated metal vent thingy, everything works except the clock, but have a spare! Rust free Arizona car, very clean. Previous PO put in big reds up front, 965 rotors. Level 2 or below? Off the tops of your heads of course!

KVDR

Condition 3, like most of us. Maybe a bit better than 3.

Condition 2 would be stock, maybe half the miles, and nothing to note.

Matt O.

That's a ridiculous thing to say. Why is it "greed and hoarding" if you appreciate that your car is appreciating? So by not selling it you are hoarding? Or by buying more than one as they values increase you are hoarding?

I don't follow.

neunfünfeins

I suppose not. Based on their comments, I think some of the other posters in this thread know what I'm referring to.
I would've been happy to explain, but coming at me with an attitude isn't very encouraging.

Matt O.

Coming at you with an attitude? Oh brother.

You implied air cooled owners are greedy and hoarding. You said it gives you hope that won't take place here. I stand by what I asked. There is NOTHING wrong with purchasing an automobile to collect and have it appreciate. That is not greed.

neunfünfeins

Not nearly all of them. You read that into it, that isn't what I wrote. I'd ask you to read again, in the context of the other comments in this thread, and with an open mind.
Not on its own, no. Some of the money-driven insanity that goes on however... qualifies as greed and borders on class warfare. It's also not my singular mission in life to fund someone else's early retirement or send their kids to college instead of mine.

'Hoarding' is a common word... they even made a TV show about it.
One collector/investment car does not make a hoarder. Nor does a handful, usually. I have 13 historic vehicles, so I might be labeled a hoarder... however, I say that they're all different models so at least I'm not depriving a number of others of a chance to participate in the hobby for any particular type (would be kind of selfish, no?), and my main motivation for having them isn't to view them as a growth chart. Kind of funny that I would be called out for having these feelings on an *enthusiast* forum.

Matt O.

Dude, step back -- you are not a victim. I didn't call you out for having any "views". I said I don't follow your logic. I still don't. Especially now that you just told me you have 13 cars. So having 13 cars is OK but 13 of the same is greed? I read those posts, and I don't agree with them either. This is not an emotional issue, this is the market pushing 951 (and all older Porsches for that matter) and there is NOTHING wrong about that. Not sure what you funding someone's retirement (or even how you are) has to do with anything.

Let's not get emotional about market forces driving prices up and down. Enjoy your car, let others enjoy theirs and if they want to, enjoy the appreciation as well. Anything else (calling it greed, whatever) is totally pointless and emotional. Class warfare? You're kidding right??

Matt O.

This is what I said was ridiculous. It still is. Whether or not some likes or dislikes, cares or doesn't care, agrees or disagrees about market prices of the 951 doesn't mean they are greedy or not.

neunfünfeins

Ok 'dude'... saying my view is ridiculous isn't calling me out for it?
And I know I'm hardly the only one who feels that way.

Having 13 cars may not be okay either, but 13 of the same thing - particularly as a method of speculative investment? Yeah, I think that would make me a selfish pr!ck. Because I would be artificially stripping supply while denying a ~dozen or so others a chance to participate in the hobby. I don't know what else to call it. This is the element I have the most problem with, not all aircooled Porsche owners. If you own one or two, great for you... you're lucky, but unlikely part of the problem.

One of my oldest friends has a sticker on one of his tool chests that read, 'The one who dies with the most toys wins.' We chuckle about the irony of that statement, which is inherently false. The one who dies... is just dead. They lose. Someone else is now enjoying their toys.

'Class warfare' was a bit extreme sure, to make a point. I've long given up any hope of ever owning an aircooled 930, and a 911 isn't looking good either. I'm even questioning if a 2.0L 914 is in my future. Born too late I guess. Yeah that makes me a little emotional. Are you not emotional about cars?
I'm at least happy that I'm not completely out of it for a 951. Some appreciation would be nice sure, but I'm not in this for a payday.

Not even sure why I'm taking the time to explain this to you, since you don't understand or agree with anything I say.
Evidently I struck some sort of nerve... hmm....
Look, you don't know me and I don't know you, and there's no reason for either of us to be rude to one another.
I'm done, apologies to the OP for going OT.

Arezzo

Is this condition 1 ?

KVDR

Copy and paste from Hagerty

Condition Ratings

#1 vehicles are the best in the world. The visual image is of the best vehicle, in the right colors, driving onto the lawn at the finest concours. Perfectly clean, the vehicle has been groomed down to the tire treads. Painted and chromed surfaces are mirror-like. Dust and dirt are banned, and materials used are correct and superbly fitted. The one word description for #1 vehicles is "concours."

#2 vehicles could win a local or regional show. They can be former #1 vehicles that have been driven or have aged. Seasoned observers will have to look closely for flaws, but will be able to find some not seen by the general public. The paint, chrome, glass and finishes will all appear as excellent. No excessive smoke will be seen on startup, no unusual noises will emanate from the engine. The vehicle will drive as a new vehicle of its era would. The one word description for #2 vehicles is "excellent."

#3 vehicles could possess some, but not all of the issues of a #4 vehicle, but they will be balanced by other factors such as a fresh paint job or a new, correct interior where applicable. #3 vehicles drive and run well, but might have some incorrect parts. These vehicles are not used for daily transportation but are ready for a long tour without excuses, and the casual passerby will not find any visual flaws. "Good" is the one word description of a #3 vehicle.

#4 vehicles are daily drivers, with flaws visible to the naked eye. The chrome might have pitting or scratches, the windshield might be chipped. Paintwork is imperfect, and perhaps the body has a minor dent. Split seams or a cracked dash, where applicable, might be present. No major parts are missing, but the wheels could differ from the originals, or other non- stock additions might be present. A #4 vehicle can also be a deteriorated restoration. "Fair" is the one word that describes a #4 vehicle.

Arezzo

Engine Bay

black944 turbo

I would say that no, that is not a number 1 there is some discoloration of the plastics. I know this is picky, but it is the truth. It may be a number 2, you would need it inspected. The fact is that a number 1 car is virtually flawless in every way and would be a trailer queen that is never driven.