Aftermarket radiator fans.
08-18-2015, 09:08 PM
#46
Drifting
Thread Starter
I picked up an Infrared gun style thermometer today. Used to have one, came in handy.
I measured the water temps just after taking the attached pic of my factory temp gauge just below where the sensor is located. The outside of the aluminum, while running showed 182 degrees. Surprised me, then I measured the intake air pipe, then turbo pipe just after the bend on the hot side, then the pipe coming out of the top of the intercooler. I was told that the ceramic coatings won't give accurate internal readings, especially the heat rejection on the intake.
The intake pipe showed 124 degrees, just after the hot side turbo bend, 182 and the pipe after from top of intercooler was 103.
Car is running cooler than I thought. The only USB serial adaptor cable that works is with my tuner, so I can't hook up my laptop to see what the TEC is reading, but the car may be running cooler than my worries seeing the "nutty" factory gauge. It's mounted next to the bleeder bolt, and may not be sending an accurate signal to the factory gauge.
Weird stuff, but nice to now have a reference using an infrared gauge. Found out last week that my EGT sensor reads 400 degrees higher than the TEC! Love these cars.
G
I measured the water temps just after taking the attached pic of my factory temp gauge just below where the sensor is located. The outside of the aluminum, while running showed 182 degrees. Surprised me, then I measured the intake air pipe, then turbo pipe just after the bend on the hot side, then the pipe coming out of the top of the intercooler. I was told that the ceramic coatings won't give accurate internal readings, especially the heat rejection on the intake.
The intake pipe showed 124 degrees, just after the hot side turbo bend, 182 and the pipe after from top of intercooler was 103.
Car is running cooler than I thought. The only USB serial adaptor cable that works is with my tuner, so I can't hook up my laptop to see what the TEC is reading, but the car may be running cooler than my worries seeing the "nutty" factory gauge. It's mounted next to the bleeder bolt, and may not be sending an accurate signal to the factory gauge.
Weird stuff, but nice to now have a reference using an infrared gauge. Found out last week that my EGT sensor reads 400 degrees higher than the TEC! Love these cars.
G
08-18-2015, 09:11 PM
#47
Drifting
Thread Starter
I picked up an Infrared gun style thermometer today. Used to have one, came in handy.
I measured the water temps just after taking the attached pic of my factory temp gauge just below where the sensor is located. The outside of the aluminum, while running showed 182 degrees. Surprised me, then I measured the intake air pipe, then turbo pipe just after the bend on the hot side, then the pipe coming out of the top of the intercooler. I was told that the ceramic coatings won't give accurate internal readings, especially the heat rejection on the intake.
The intake pipe showed 124 degrees, just after the hot side turbo bend, 182 and the pipe after from top of intercooler was 103.
Car is running cooler than I thought. The only USB serial adaptor cable that works is with my tuner, so I can't hook up my laptop to see what the TEC is reading, but the car may be running cooler than my worries seeing the "nutty" factory gauge. It's mounted next to the bleeder bolt, and may not be sending an accurate signal to the factory gauge.
Weird stuff, but nice to now have a reference using an infrared gauge. Found out last week that my EGT sensor reads 400 degrees higher than the TEC! Love these cars.
G
I measured the water temps just after taking the attached pic of my factory temp gauge just below where the sensor is located. The outside of the aluminum, while running showed 182 degrees. Surprised me, then I measured the intake air pipe, then turbo pipe just after the bend on the hot side, then the pipe coming out of the top of the intercooler. I was told that the ceramic coatings won't give accurate internal readings, especially the heat rejection on the intake.
The intake pipe showed 124 degrees, just after the hot side turbo bend, 182 and the pipe after from top of intercooler was 103.
Car is running cooler than I thought. The only USB serial adaptor cable that works is with my tuner, so I can't hook up my laptop to see what the TEC is reading, but the car may be running cooler than my worries seeing the "nutty" factory gauge. It's mounted next to the bleeder bolt, and may not be sending an accurate signal to the factory gauge.
Weird stuff, but nice to now have a reference using an infrared gauge. Found out last week that my EGT sensor reads 400 degrees higher than the TEC! Love these cars.
G
08-18-2015, 09:15 PM
#48
Drifting
Thread Starter
Forgot to share. Having a steam vent installed bleeds all the air from your coolant system automatically!!! Never liked that 10mm bolt with a wrench hearing the hissing. Worth the effort just for this annoyance not longer necessary.
08-19-2015, 01:00 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Not sure you can get an accurate reading of the coolant by testing the outer wall of the block...? I'd pop the wires off that sensor and measure the ohms across the sensor leads. Then compare the sensor's output to the gauge. If they match, then at least the gauge is displaying the signal properly, meaning any inaccuracy (if any) is in the sensor. If they don't match, then something is awry in the gauge or in the wiring between it and the sensor.
08-19-2015, 01:01 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
08-19-2015, 02:14 PM
#51
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
On a separate note, here is a worthwhile coolant system upgrade I've recently done. This mod removes the T-stat from the water pump all together and has it relocated to the outlet of the radiator via a remote housing. Along with this, a new water pump gasket is used to promote the return flow from the radiator to pass through the head instead of taking the path of least resistance and allowing much of the incoming cooler fluid to bypass to the front side of the impeller.
The remote T-stat housing has a bleeder hole drilled in its flange to promote flow past it for the warm-up cycle. I've added a one-way check valve to the front side of housing to allow for any build up of fluid in the reservoir to make its way back into the coolant circuit.
In the hot AZ summer, my coolant temp stays rock solid and barely goes over the first temp line on the gauge. With A/C running and the cooling fans on high speed mode, the temps are always in check.
This mod was passed over to me by a long time 951 racer who has retrofitted this mod to several race cars. One of the advantages of doing this is that the coolant flow in the cylinder head is purposely increased due to the restriction placed in the water pump gasket. The flow of coolant is forced through the head now promoting a greater safety margin from heat build up at the #4 cylinder where a lot of head gasket failures occur.
On top of that, with the T-stat removed from the front of the impeller, the pump can perform better and has less chances of cavitating due to having the restriction directly in front of it. They have recorded an increase in system pressure due to greater impeller efficiency - up to 17 psi from 12 psi.
The feedback I have been given over the past couple of years of this mod being in use is that common head gasket failures seen in the past have disappeared with a group of 5 race cars that have moved to this.
Thought I'd share. Sorry that this isn't about different cooling fan options, but it's somewhat related :-)
The remote T-stat housing has a bleeder hole drilled in its flange to promote flow past it for the warm-up cycle. I've added a one-way check valve to the front side of housing to allow for any build up of fluid in the reservoir to make its way back into the coolant circuit.
In the hot AZ summer, my coolant temp stays rock solid and barely goes over the first temp line on the gauge. With A/C running and the cooling fans on high speed mode, the temps are always in check.
This mod was passed over to me by a long time 951 racer who has retrofitted this mod to several race cars. One of the advantages of doing this is that the coolant flow in the cylinder head is purposely increased due to the restriction placed in the water pump gasket. The flow of coolant is forced through the head now promoting a greater safety margin from heat build up at the #4 cylinder where a lot of head gasket failures occur.
On top of that, with the T-stat removed from the front of the impeller, the pump can perform better and has less chances of cavitating due to having the restriction directly in front of it. They have recorded an increase in system pressure due to greater impeller efficiency - up to 17 psi from 12 psi.
The feedback I have been given over the past couple of years of this mod being in use is that common head gasket failures seen in the past have disappeared with a group of 5 race cars that have moved to this.
Thought I'd share. Sorry that this isn't about different cooling fan options, but it's somewhat related :-)
08-19-2015, 03:28 PM
#53
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
It's a cometic MLS gasket.
The elbow fitting on the water pump housing is still open. This is the hose that I put the check valve to the reservoir.
The bypass port on the water pump is still used. It just sees a lot less flow due to the small 1/8" hole. This is why more coolant flows through the head.
The additional hose on the remote T-stat housing is plumbed to the rear of the rear of the cylinder head. This helps in the warm up cycle - heated coolant at the back of the head is directed to the front of the t-stat and helps bring it up to temp faster.
The elbow fitting on the water pump housing is still open. This is the hose that I put the check valve to the reservoir.
The bypass port on the water pump is still used. It just sees a lot less flow due to the small 1/8" hole. This is why more coolant flows through the head.
The additional hose on the remote T-stat housing is plumbed to the rear of the rear of the cylinder head. This helps in the warm up cycle - heated coolant at the back of the head is directed to the front of the t-stat and helps bring it up to temp faster.
08-19-2015, 03:38 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
It's a cometic MLS gasket -- or is that an MLS water pump gasket??
The elbow fitting on the water pump housing is still open. This is the hose that I put the check valve to the reservoir.
The bypass port on the water pump is still used. It just sees a lot less flow due to the small 1/8" hole. This is why more coolant flows through the head.
The additional hose on the remote T-stat housing is plumbed to the rear of the rear of the cylinder head. This helps in the warm up cycle - heated coolant at the back of the head is directed to the front of the t-stat and helps bring it up to temp faster.
The elbow fitting on the water pump housing is still open. This is the hose that I put the check valve to the reservoir.
The bypass port on the water pump is still used. It just sees a lot less flow due to the small 1/8" hole. This is why more coolant flows through the head.
The additional hose on the remote T-stat housing is plumbed to the rear of the rear of the cylinder head. This helps in the warm up cycle - heated coolant at the back of the head is directed to the front of the t-stat and helps bring it up to temp faster.
Is your turbo not water cooled, or do I misunderstand what you mean about the little elbow on the pump?
I wonder if you could install a normal t-stat with the big valve face removed, so it's always open, but so the rear face still seals the bypass port completely shut when hot? A 1/8" hole might put lots of pressure on the impeller when the t-stat is closed, no, and permit unneeded bypassing when hot...? Just thinking out loud...
08-19-2015, 05:03 PM
#55
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thank you for posting this! I've never seen this on our cars and completely makes sense. Send me a PM with your contact info. I'll give you a call next time I'm in Phoenix on biz. I'll drive up the 951. This mod looks very straight forward. I'll have this done when I have the fan flange properly sealed.
G
G
On a separate note, here is a worthwhile coolant system upgrade I've recently done. This mod removes the T-stat from the water pump all together and has it relocated to the outlet of the radiator via a remote housing. Along with this, a new water pump gasket is used to promote the return flow from the radiator to pass through the head instead of taking the path of least resistance and allowing much of the incoming cooler fluid to bypass to the front side of the impeller.
The remote T-stat housing has a bleeder hole drilled in its flange to promote flow past it for the warm-up cycle. I've added a one-way check valve to the front side of housing to allow for any build up of fluid in the reservoir to make its way back into the coolant circuit.
In the hot AZ summer, my coolant temp stays rock solid and barely goes over the first temp line on the gauge. With A/C running and the cooling fans on high speed mode, the temps are always in check.
This mod was passed over to me by a long time 951 racer who has retrofitted this mod to several race cars. One of the advantages of doing this is that the coolant flow in the cylinder head is purposely increased due to the restriction placed in the water pump gasket. The flow of coolant is forced through the head now promoting a greater safety margin from heat build up at the #4 cylinder where a lot of head gasket failures occur.
On top of that, with the T-stat removed from the front of the impeller, the pump can perform better and has less chances of cavitating due to having the restriction directly in front of it. They have recorded an increase in system pressure due to greater impeller efficiency - up to 17 psi from 12 psi.
The feedback I have been given over the past couple of years of this mod being in use is that common head gasket failures seen in the past have disappeared with a group of 5 race cars that have moved to this.
Thought I'd share. Sorry that this isn't about different cooling fan options, but it's somewhat related :-)
The remote T-stat housing has a bleeder hole drilled in its flange to promote flow past it for the warm-up cycle. I've added a one-way check valve to the front side of housing to allow for any build up of fluid in the reservoir to make its way back into the coolant circuit.
In the hot AZ summer, my coolant temp stays rock solid and barely goes over the first temp line on the gauge. With A/C running and the cooling fans on high speed mode, the temps are always in check.
This mod was passed over to me by a long time 951 racer who has retrofitted this mod to several race cars. One of the advantages of doing this is that the coolant flow in the cylinder head is purposely increased due to the restriction placed in the water pump gasket. The flow of coolant is forced through the head now promoting a greater safety margin from heat build up at the #4 cylinder where a lot of head gasket failures occur.
On top of that, with the T-stat removed from the front of the impeller, the pump can perform better and has less chances of cavitating due to having the restriction directly in front of it. They have recorded an increase in system pressure due to greater impeller efficiency - up to 17 psi from 12 psi.
The feedback I have been given over the past couple of years of this mod being in use is that common head gasket failures seen in the past have disappeared with a group of 5 race cars that have moved to this.
Thought I'd share. Sorry that this isn't about different cooling fan options, but it's somewhat related :-)
08-19-2015, 05:08 PM
#56
Drifting
Thread Starter
Is there a write up link to this procedure? I get most from the photo's, but I will be assisting Steve/Mario doing the actual work. Having access to a pro with every tool, lifts, etc. is worth paying him his due. He's worked on my cars for 25 years, and his shop/business is at his house/property. Helps that we're also close friends. Only reason I didn't install a lift in my garage!
G
G
On a separate note, here is a worthwhile coolant system upgrade I've recently done. This mod removes the T-stat from the water pump all together and has it relocated to the outlet of the radiator via a remote housing. Along with this, a new water pump gasket is used to promote the return flow from the radiator to pass through the head instead of taking the path of least resistance and allowing much of the incoming cooler fluid to bypass to the front side of the impeller.
The remote T-stat housing has a bleeder hole drilled in its flange to promote flow past it for the warm-up cycle. I've added a one-way check valve to the front side of housing to allow for any build up of fluid in the reservoir to make its way back into the coolant circuit.
In the hot AZ summer, my coolant temp stays rock solid and barely goes over the first temp line on the gauge. With A/C running and the cooling fans on high speed mode, the temps are always in check.
This mod was passed over to me by a long time 951 racer who has retrofitted this mod to several race cars. One of the advantages of doing this is that the coolant flow in the cylinder head is purposely increased due to the restriction placed in the water pump gasket. The flow of coolant is forced through the head now promoting a greater safety margin from heat build up at the #4 cylinder where a lot of head gasket failures occur.
On top of that, with the T-stat removed from the front of the impeller, the pump can perform better and has less chances of cavitating due to having the restriction directly in front of it. They have recorded an increase in system pressure due to greater impeller efficiency - up to 17 psi from 12 psi.
The feedback I have been given over the past couple of years of this mod being in use is that common head gasket failures seen in the past have disappeared with a group of 5 race cars that have moved to this.
Thought I'd share. Sorry that this isn't about different cooling fan options, but it's somewhat related :-)
The remote T-stat housing has a bleeder hole drilled in its flange to promote flow past it for the warm-up cycle. I've added a one-way check valve to the front side of housing to allow for any build up of fluid in the reservoir to make its way back into the coolant circuit.
In the hot AZ summer, my coolant temp stays rock solid and barely goes over the first temp line on the gauge. With A/C running and the cooling fans on high speed mode, the temps are always in check.
This mod was passed over to me by a long time 951 racer who has retrofitted this mod to several race cars. One of the advantages of doing this is that the coolant flow in the cylinder head is purposely increased due to the restriction placed in the water pump gasket. The flow of coolant is forced through the head now promoting a greater safety margin from heat build up at the #4 cylinder where a lot of head gasket failures occur.
On top of that, with the T-stat removed from the front of the impeller, the pump can perform better and has less chances of cavitating due to having the restriction directly in front of it. They have recorded an increase in system pressure due to greater impeller efficiency - up to 17 psi from 12 psi.
The feedback I have been given over the past couple of years of this mod being in use is that common head gasket failures seen in the past have disappeared with a group of 5 race cars that have moved to this.
Thought I'd share. Sorry that this isn't about different cooling fan options, but it's somewhat related :-)
08-19-2015, 05:22 PM
#57
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
That WP mod is very interesting!
But isn't the blocked off portion a recirculation hole for warmup, that feeds water from the head back to the impeller?
By blocking it off, aren't you just making water that would otherwise be recirculated, be forced through the radiator instead?
But isn't the blocked off portion a recirculation hole for warmup, that feeds water from the head back to the impeller?
By blocking it off, aren't you just making water that would otherwise be recirculated, be forced through the radiator instead?
08-19-2015, 05:33 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
Do you have a thermostat in place? If your temps were truly too cold to even turn on the low speed fan relay, can't think any other explanation other than very cool weather and an open thermostat housing.
I have an attachable shield that came with my Duramax to be used in extreme cold temps, but I've never used it, even in -10 temps.
A few 951 guys years back with large builds used to delete the thermostat. Most of us didn't go that route, and in the winter it took a long time for the motors to come up to operating temps. Don't know of anyone doing this today.
I have an attachable shield that came with my Duramax to be used in extreme cold temps, but I've never used it, even in -10 temps.
A few 951 guys years back with large builds used to delete the thermostat. Most of us didn't go that route, and in the winter it took a long time for the motors to come up to operating temps. Don't know of anyone doing this today.
08-19-2015, 11:27 PM
#59
Drifting
Thread Starter
No, just for baseline observations used to see the differences from sealing the shroud, external thermostat setup, etc. as compared to where the factory gauge is pointing.
Not sure you can get an accurate reading of the coolant by testing the outer wall of the block...? I'd pop the wires off that sensor and measure the ohms across the sensor leads. Then compare the sensor's output to the gauge. If they match, then at least the gauge is displaying the signal properly, meaning any inaccuracy (if any) is in the sensor. If they don't match, then something is awry in the gauge or in the wiring between it and the sensor.
08-20-2015, 06:40 AM
#60
More pics please 
On a separate note, here is a worthwhile coolant system upgrade I've recently done. This mod removes the T-stat from the water pump all together and has it relocated to the outlet of the radiator via a remote housing. Along with this, a new water pump gasket is used to promote the return flow from the radiator to pass through the head instead of taking the path of least resistance and allowing much of the incoming cooler fluid to bypass to the front side of the impeller.
The remote T-stat housing has a bleeder hole drilled in its flange to promote flow past it for the warm-up cycle. I've added a one-way check valve to the front side of housing to allow for any build up of fluid in the reservoir to make its way back into the coolant circuit.
In the hot AZ summer, my coolant temp stays rock solid and barely goes over the first temp line on the gauge. With A/C running and the cooling fans on high speed mode, the temps are always in check.
This mod was passed over to me by a long time 951 racer who has retrofitted this mod to several race cars. One of the advantages of doing this is that the coolant flow in the cylinder head is purposely increased due to the restriction placed in the water pump gasket. The flow of coolant is forced through the head now promoting a greater safety margin from heat build up at the #4 cylinder where a lot of head gasket failures occur.
On top of that, with the T-stat removed from the front of the impeller, the pump can perform better and has less chances of cavitating due to having the restriction directly in front of it. They have recorded an increase in system pressure due to greater impeller efficiency - up to 17 psi from 12 psi.
The feedback I have been given over the past couple of years of this mod being in use is that common head gasket failures seen in the past have disappeared with a group of 5 race cars that have moved to this.
Thought I'd share. Sorry that this isn't about different cooling fan options, but it's somewhat related :-)
The remote T-stat housing has a bleeder hole drilled in its flange to promote flow past it for the warm-up cycle. I've added a one-way check valve to the front side of housing to allow for any build up of fluid in the reservoir to make its way back into the coolant circuit.
In the hot AZ summer, my coolant temp stays rock solid and barely goes over the first temp line on the gauge. With A/C running and the cooling fans on high speed mode, the temps are always in check.
This mod was passed over to me by a long time 951 racer who has retrofitted this mod to several race cars. One of the advantages of doing this is that the coolant flow in the cylinder head is purposely increased due to the restriction placed in the water pump gasket. The flow of coolant is forced through the head now promoting a greater safety margin from heat build up at the #4 cylinder where a lot of head gasket failures occur.
On top of that, with the T-stat removed from the front of the impeller, the pump can perform better and has less chances of cavitating due to having the restriction directly in front of it. They have recorded an increase in system pressure due to greater impeller efficiency - up to 17 psi from 12 psi.
The feedback I have been given over the past couple of years of this mod being in use is that common head gasket failures seen in the past have disappeared with a group of 5 race cars that have moved to this.
Thought I'd share. Sorry that this isn't about different cooling fan options, but it's somewhat related :-)