lovemyp-car

Hi Spence,

Sorry I missed this before, thanks for the insight. I've seen the finger tips reworked before to add material.

I've considered the possibility of running a welding bead along the outside edge of the fingers to add material, but I'm worried about welding on what I think is a cast clutch fork, which if you don't do it correctly you can create a more brittle, weaker fork. I'll have to look into this more, if i had the time I would love to have a fork made by a machinist...don't know any locally though :-/

Thank you for the concise recommendation! This is most likely the direction that I will go.

Thank you for the suggestion. Do you have personal experience with the mini-twin? I will most likely cross that option off of my list but would like to still entertain it as a distant possibility. I am leaning toward a sport disk with my KEP pressure plate and my lightened flywheel at this time.

On another note, it seems that I am sort of stuck in terms of getting my hands on a rebuilt torque tube in a timely manner. Constantine is in the process of moving and won't be able to supply one until probably Thanksgiving, and 944online does not have any rebuilt TT's available, and if I send them a core to be rebuilt it will be about the same lead time as Constantine.

Because of this I am currently considering finding a good used torque tube and just installing it with a new clutch disk to get the car on the road. I really don't want this to come back to bite me in the *** though...

Here's about how I'm feeling right now about this situation:

Thanks for keeping me sane guys,
Ethan

gruhsy

I bought a used torque tube out of Oklahoma and had them send it to Constantine. It was pretty cheap to get the used one.

lovemyp-car

Hi gruhsy,

I have local contacts that have access to torque tubes that I could purchase. Problem is neither of the suppliers/companies that do torque tube rebuilds are currently able to send me one right now. I want to get this car on the road ASAP, and do not want to wait until the end of November to get one in my hands when I am doing this work on the asphalt in my driveway on jackstands.

Thanks
Ethan

blown 944

To add another perspective. Look at the tt splines. They are fairly rust pitted. I would not expect them to hold up with any clutch.

Obviously the disc had an issue, but I tgink there may have been another problem too

lovemyp-car

Hi Sid,

Thank you for your comment! I appreciate the perspective.

In the picture below the red circled area has obvious, fresh surface rust because of the damage caused by the clutch disk splines being incorrect. I will post up a picture later of a close-up of the clutch disk splines in comparison to a good torque tube tip I have (That I use for a clutch alignment tool lol!)

The blue circle is what I think you are referring to Sid...the pitting in the surface of the intact torque tube splines (behind the damaged area) does look suspicious...however it is my belief that this pitting did not cause the catastrophic clutch failure (though they definitely did not help the situation!).

I believe that this same clutch disk caused the exact same damage to the old torque tube (that was in the car when I bought it with the engine and transmission removed). I discovered this damage on the torque tube after purchasing the vehicle, and replaced the damaged torque tube (same spline damage as seen below) with a used torque tube with documented sub 60k miles (car had sat a lot...possibly why this torque tube has some pits in the driveshaft). I (like a dumbass) did not put 2 and 2 together and I put the same clutch disk back in (the one pictured on page 1, that blew up)...because it only had 2-3 thousand miles on it and spec'd out properly in terms of thickness...I did not think to check the splines on the disk

Anybody have any ideas what would cause the pitting in the blue circle? Like I said the pitting the red circle is new, from the torque tube having exposed metal being left out in the weather.



Thanks guys,
Ethan

lovemyp-car

Hey guys,

I think I'm about to pull the trigger on a Spec Stage II clutch kit...looking at getting it off of Lindsey Racing's website. I'm not comfortable running the KEP pressure plate, and as I already have the Spec Billet Steel Flywheel which is a fantastic product I might as well make it a whole Spec kit lmao!

I actually had a Spec clutch kit in one of my other vehicles (an old beast of a truck that put down some serious power) and it was a great clutch, so I'm comfortable running with Spec this time around.

Any thoughts or suggestions before I drop some $$$$? I'm thinking the Stage II because I already have some mods, and I will most likely be doing just a little bit more to the car in terms of performance stuff, so I want to have a bit more clamping power than I will ever use.

Thanks guys,
Ethan

mtnman82

Sounds like you've made your mind up, but thought I'd chime in as a user of the KEP stage I and 930 disk, which I really like. Pedal effort is just a tad more than stock (my wife wouldn't notice the difference). The 930 disk gives you a little more friction surface and is a tad thicker so should last longer (and I believe is also the reason some are unable to run the aluminum flywheel with this combo). 930 disk is also cheaper than the cup disk. I had my stock flywheel trimmed down to ~9 lbs iirc. I also sent my fork to Blazack to have it strengthened (I think he adds material to the fingers and heat treats it, in addition to adding bronze bushings in place of the needle bearings).

Sticking with the Spec package should guarantee everything works. I believe that's what Refresh951 uses, and he's making serious power and has definitely been using his car. Good luck with it!

TurboAngel

Regarding the area in the blue circle, I have that section cut from an old tube that I used as a clutch alignment tool. I lost it and found it maybe 2 years later outside covered in thick rust. I wire brushed it and it has no pitting at all. It must of been submerged in damp soil for many years I would say. Curious as I've never seen anything like it. I can't think of any excuse to have used that particular tube, it must of been obvious and a concious "gamble".

lovemyp-car

It didn't occupy my thoughts as the prior driveshaft was so trashed this one looked WAY better...I never even noticed the pitting on the splines until they were pointed out here.

Back onto the topic at hand of me dumping money into this clutch situation:

I inspected my Pressure Plate, and it is in fact a KEP Stage 1...and while it appears to be intact I am somewhat worried about the fact that there were springs bouncing around inside of it against the pressure fingers.

In addition, I am also taking into consideration that I had some issues with clutch fork throw when I first installed this setup. I believe due to this flywheel reportedly sitting slightly more proud than the stock one (further back out from the back of the motor that is) in combination with a non-stock type clutch disk, that the throwout bearing sat further aft, causing me to have to decrease the throw of the clutch slave so that the clutch fork would not contact the rotating mass (pressure plate) when pressing the clutch pedal to the floor.

Because of these multiple issues it is very difficult for me to make a decision on which clutch setup to move forward with.

I like the Spec systems, and would happily use one in my car, but I also do not want to discount the fact that I already own a usable, relatively nice PP (that is; the KEP Stage 1).

Truth be told I'd rather spend less money on putting a new clutch in this car than more...which makes me seriously consider putting a CUP disk in this car...but I am not sold on that setup, even though many seem to use it, since I do not know how many of you also use the same flywheel as what I have, and whether or not this will cause disengagement and/or clutch throw issues once I have it all put together.

I also don't want to put a new disk in it, put it together and have one of the pressure plate fingers break...that would **** me off.

Those of you who have read my John Kerry-esque flip-flop ramblings this far are gentlemen and scholars
Thanks for the insight and advice guys!
Ethan

Dave W.

OK I can understand your situation.
FWIW I have a spec steel flywheel, the 3 lobe type with a KEP stage 1 PP and a sport disc. I'm very happy with this combo. My car made 396 WTQ on a low reading Mustang dyno. The standard conversion puts that around 455WTQ on an american dynojet dyno, so it'll hold plenty of power.
I'd recommend that you check out the wear on the friction surfaces to see if they're re-usable. The flywheel can be resurfaced once. An organic full faced friction disc can handle a slight amount of unevenness between the flywheel and PP, it doesn't have to be perfectly flat. Any damage from the broken springs should be visible. Also check for unevenness in the PP fingers and wear on the back of the fingers where the TOB pulls against it. Lastly, keep in mind that doing a clutch job is either expensive or a big PITA, so choose wisely. It's no fun doing it over.

lovemyp-car

Hi Dave,

Thank you so much for the input on this situation. I appreciate the point of view. Like you said a clutch job is either expensive or a big PITA...I would choose the expensive part over the pain in the *** part any day of the week (except when I'm broke lmao!) but I guess the fact that so many people swear by the KEP Stage 1 with a Cup disk has me second guessing my initial game-plan -- to buy a brand new clutch kit and start with all new stuff.

Because there is some wear on the KEP PP fingers at the throwout bearing area and the fact that there may be some additional issues arising from the fact that things were bouncing around in there that weren't supposed to be, I'm leaning toward the Spec Stage II kit...I think it eliminates the most potential problems that I could run into.

Thoughts?
Thanks,
Ethan

333pg333

I'd add that I had good experiences with Southbend clutches as did quite a few other Rennlisters.
They can make you up something to suit your needs in my estimation.

lovemyp-car

Thank you for the recommendation Patrick.

From my research I am probably going to skip the Spec clutch (flip-flopping again!!) and either touch up the friction surfaces of the flywheel and my KEP PP and put a Cup disk in it, or go with a full kit from Southbend (once they get back to me with a quote etc)

I appreciate everyone chiming in with recommendations and helping me choose a path here...it has been difficult to land on a final decision with the variables that I have.

Also...just an update/FYI: I inspected my clutch fork and it appears as if it was replaced very recently (in terms of miles)...I will take pictures later today and upload, but there is very little wear on the fingers of the fork, and it is in surprisingly good shape overall. I believe that this car has only had a couple thousand miles put on it in the last few years, I'm going to make the assumption that the clutch fork was replaced when the FW, PP and disk were replaced, which by my estimate was a few years back, but only about 6K miles ago (according to receipts provided by PO).

Once again I believe that this car has spent more time apart due to clutch issues in the last few years than it has on the road, due to the clutch disk that disintegrated ruining at least 2 torque tubes (this all has made me wonder why one of the previous owners purchased a rebuilt torque tube from somewhere on the west coast a few years ago, which was destroyed by this clutch disk before I purchased the car). So this would make my assumption about the clutch fork only having a few thousand miles on it very possible.

Thanks again for the recommendations and for sticking with me through my ramblings, updates to follow
Ethan