Raceboy

Calculating engine hp from whp is alchemy at best, there are just too many factors and without engine dyno, one would be just guesstimating it.

100 hp per liter from the engine that has so good head is nothing special, even 911 aircooled engines with 2 valves per cylinder can achieve that without too much hassle (think of 911 S 2.2 engine that had 180 hp in stock form in 1970, that is not quite 100 hp/liter but close).

It has been confirmed also that at 1.3 bars 3.0 968 engine produced 500 rwhp (Markus Jägermeister 951).

Besides, if numbers don't add up, I would suggest doing a standing mile on your 500 whp car that runs at 1.6 bars and see if you get 308 km/h If you do, I agree with your statement, if you don't then you know who was right.

KevinGross

Before getting too excited about hogging out your ports and increasing flow, read David Vizard's book "Theory and Practice of Cylinder Head Modification."

Kevin
Catellus Engineering

KSira

500whp at 1.3 bar on a 968 makes sense. 670whp on a S2 head at 1.6bar (223whp/L) I still do not believe, unless this head has a lot of work done to it. 170whp more with 0.3bar more boost is to good to be true. Just for comparison the mention 968 would need at least 2.0bar boost to get 670whp. Probably more, depending on the efficiency of the head and turbo compressor.

My car won't do 308km/h without a new gearbox. Besides, where is the fun in going fast in a straight line

Raceboy

I am not talking about fun, I am talking about if numbers add up. And with 500whp, there is no way you would reach 300 kph on standing mile.

What you believe if your business and I can tell you that the head saw some mods, it was not stock head anymore, but also not heavily modified. I have tuned and built an engine or two and quite frankly, tune does affect some things too...

333pg333

While I believe you to a degree, I don't have any real knowledge of what it takes to do a standing mile nor know the veracity of that run, but 670whp is a pretty high claim. There's not a lot of people to compare high boosted 16v motors with but tuning alone isn't going to make 70-100 whp over and above what a lot of other tuners have achieved in my opinion. For some reason I seem to remember Nitrous on that car...might be imagining it but that might explain something...

Raceboy

Markus made 265kph in standing 1km distance, Kristo reached 275 kph in standing 1km distance. If you know how much hp each additional kph costs, then you get the idea.

Believe what you want but numbers don't lie, especially real life, result based numbers, not some random dyno numbers.

I would suggest you guys make some standing 1km or mile runs and compare. Traction does not matter much as time is not relevant, just the "trap speed".

For example, 700 whp BMW E30 with turbocharged 3.5liter M30 engine (HX40 Super at 1.8 bar boost) had 292 kph and 1km speed at the same run was 265 kph.

What you believe is your issue, I am just telling what we have experienced, nothing else.

KSira

Lets have a look at what super cars can do on a 1km run.

1KM run:
18.11 325.3 km/h Koenigsegg 1018 PS
18.84 294.7 km/h Koenigsegg CCR 804 PS

From the video the 968 uses about 30sec to do 308km/h and it does not look that powerful either. There is no massive wheel spin to explain the 10-11sec gap. You can claim all you want but the facts just don't add up.

Raceboy

This just shows that you have no experience whatsoever in top speed competitions..
Bone stock 420 hp 996 Turbo achieved 265 kph, few km's give or take, several of those here, all similar results. 997 Turbo PDK 3.8T 500hp got 280 kmh... Does not add up? Riiiight..

Time is irrelevant, speed does not matter a bit whether you spin the tires in every gear or drive normally. Here's a run from a same competition a year earlier, E30 M50 325 with 850 hp, 315 kmh:
How come my numbers do not add up if they are taken from real life competition??? How thick can one be?
Here are the results from the official competition of all cars I told you about: http://www.onemile.ee/?lang=en
Browse the results and look for Kristo Mägi (Krst in Rennlist), you will see standing mile and when asterisk* is present, hold the mouse on it and it will show 1km speed also. Gee...

Is it so difficult to see further than your nose?

You can bash all you want but until you present me some results from YOUR car, your blabbering is just that, blabbering.

Kris H

One Mile Challenge 2012 II

Kristo Mägi Porsche 968 3.0T (548hp)
best run - mile - 292*


I don't see results for his 968 at higher output though.. However (just my wild guess) I think 120 more hp should make bigger improvement on trapspeed than 15kmh.. I know the faster the more difficult to improve, but still..

still - that 968 is sweet.. and if the gossip he used bone stock pistons is true, i'm totally awestruck..

H.F.B.

Some time ago Chris had a very interesting topic regarding flow bench testing a 8V vs. a 16V head. https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...testing-2.html

KSira

First its 292kmh in one km, then it is one mile. Now you are comapring 500hp 997 with a 540whp car. Then it is getting personal. I have made my point and you can continiue acting like a 6year old for all I care. This is the last post on this topic from me.

Btw: one km is 270 and 275 with 670whp.

333pg333

Seems like enough reasons to question the claims. Being aggressive doesn't help.

refresh951

Pretty cool 1/2 mile speed competition by Zagaone. IIRC 3.4L with around 550 rwhp at 1 bar

https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...ml#post8672285

Raceboy

It was 292 in standing mile, not standing km. I provided you comparing numbers from the real life, same event.

And Patrick, these were not claims, these were results. If someone just refusing to accept facts, it is a bit annoying but ok, we have all kinds of people in the world...

Raceboy

Here it is: http://www.onemile.ee/?lang=et&page=...ear=2013&acm=1

One mile Challenege 2013 II, Kristo Mägi, 308 kph, winner of the C class.

At 300 kph area, every kph costs many hp, you really whould test your car and then you would see.

Most coming to these events are full of optimism until the results Some are pleased but for some reality bites painfully...