Penguinracer

Which machine shops have you approached?
I contacted Capricorn regarding their Alloy Nickel Ceramic liners & they recommended Geoff Page Racing who apparently has done a number of these installation on 951s.
Wossner's European distribution seems to be virtually non-existent - there's no UK dealer & you don't seem to be able to order direct from Germany.
Tim

blade7

I've contacted them 2 or 3 times in the past and never got a reply.

blade7

Capricorn and Serdi, got an initial response but when I asked about pistons no reply. They're both probably really busy or not that interested maybe. Did you contact Geoff Page Racing yourself ? There is a UK Wossner dealer but they don't seem to know anything about 944 custom pistons.

KSira

How much is dry liners? This is what I opted for after the disaster with honing alusil. Makes it much easier to get pistons also.

Penguinracer

I emailed Geoff Page ages ago but never got a reply. I've had my build on hold as other demands on my finances have pushed it well down my list of priorities.

I don't know if Geoff Page will be very cost effective as I get the impression he does a lot of high-end stuff for very wealthy collectors/competitors - but that's just an assumption.

Gantspeed were very welcoming & given their work on Cherburator's racing 928 they would be well up to the task.

I've accumulated all my own parts so JMG would not be an option for me - plus the few times I've tried ordering anything from them - I had to continually chase as no one ever called back & I gave up in the end!

Duke

I will see what the Wössner factory says. Last time I checked custom 944 pistons were actually cheaper via US but things might have changed now with the stronger USD exchange rate.

blade7

I think the options are limited for us in the UK with liners or Alusil, if you want it done correctly it's probably down to the expensive specialists mentioned. I think Cheb went to Bulgaria in the end. I've got most of the parts for a 3.0 but whenever I get interested there are more hoops to jump through and I lose the motivation to chuck another £5k at my engine.

V2Rocket

It's so weird that stuff made in Europe is cheaper in US than EU.
Maybe you should take a trip out here, buy a suitcase on landing and fill it with engine parts to take back as a carry-on

blade7

I heard of a block where the liners didn't have cutouts for the windage ports and was told the machine shop wanted $$$$$ to machine the cutouts in afterwards.

KSira

That's not what I would consider a serious machine shop. I have contact info for the machine shop that did mine if you are willing to ship to Norway. So far there's been no problems. He made windage ports and there are flanges on top to keep the liners from sinking. He is a great guy with over 20year experience ans has a MSc so he is very knowledgeable about what he does also.

I paid 1500£ including vat.

He also told me that grinding down the windage ports where a real PITA because the ductile iron is extremely hard.

blade7

When I asked Capricorn a 2 or 3 years back I think they said £1800 for installed plated liners, if they still do it I'd probably use them. I believe they correctly space the bores, make sure they line up properly with the crank and machine the girdle if necessary. If I recall correctly Serdi said around £500 to bore and refinish the Alusil cylinders.

Penguinracer

Even at £2K I think the Capricorn approach would be the best - provided they use an ALLOY Nickel Ceramic liner rather than steel.

I can see steel being fine for a dedicated trackday or racing car where it will be carefully warmed-up before being run very hot for extended periods.

For a dual purpose car - I think the reduced expansion differential of alloy liners is the answer given frequent hot & cold starts, short trips, reduced warm-up time etc.

I'm sceptical of finding someone in the UK who can do a really good job of Alusil honing. While it shouldn't be rocket science I think it's done so infrequently here now that much of the skill & experience has been lost.

Tim

KSira

Isn't that a steel liner with Nickel Ceramic coating?

From their website: capricorn AUTOMOTIVE Ltd. offers high-performance wet or dry nickel-ceramic-plated cylinder liners to the motor racing and niche OEM industry

Voith

I don't know how hard can it be to just follow the instructions for Alusil boring and lapping from 944 service manual. There is an exact procedure there, step by step and here are even new solutions covered in detail.. http://download.ms-motorservice.com/...947-02_web.pdf

Every machine shop thinks they are smarter than anything and just do it their own way which usually ends with ruined block.

I have second one in the shop, they said it would be done by last friday and still nothing. I hope I wont need to search for third 104mm block.

blade7

I know Capricorn used to fit alloy dry liners, someone that lives near me had one fitted quite a long time ago. I think Capricorn is quite a big outfit now, wasn't it them that tried to take over the Nurburgring recently ? Shame there aren't any new 968 blocks around now.
When I asked here about the windage cutouts in the liners the advice was to cut them before installing the liner, a lot easier than trying to do it in situ I'd have thought.