Thom

I'm pretty sure that the amount of fuel that gets dumped into the oil because of excessively frequent warm up cycles (spending lots of time in stop and start traffic and urban environment) will necessarily wear the oil out quicker.

OnlineAlias

I had no idea that there could be a discussion with informed and reasoned opinions on the internet. My bad....

Tedro951

Its just more challenging when it comes to oil. There are probably 250K mile 944s that haven't seen a boutique oil since 1987. It might make one conclude that the choice of oil isn't critical. Long live BITOG

67King

When you say it "looks and smells" like a used oil, can you elaborate? In other words, are you having a used oil analysis done? There is a perception that oil becoming black means it is getting used up, when in reality, it means it is doing its job.

I think it was Thom that mentioned it, but a lot of start-up cycles can degrade the oil, unless it is routinely gotten to full operating temperature, as the fuel enrichment can cause dilution, which will degrade the oil.

But overall, I would not rely on appearance and smell to determine the quality of a used oil. It needs to be done chemically. Other than something like sulfur, you won't be able to detect content that could be critical, say 100ppm (0.01%) of Fe.

Here is a link to the report we did on the race car. Race conditions, but 1700 miles is a LONG time for a race car:
http://performanceracingoils.com/PDF...case_study.pdf

Here is a customer car's UOA at 10 hours. This was a Cup car. Note the comments from Blackstone's analyst ("Metals are pretty good in this sample compared to our averages, which are based on about 4 hours on the oil. It's impressive that you've got a longer run (10hours) here, yet metals are generally a little better."): http://performanceracingoils.com/PDF..._anonymous.pdf

I don't have much for road use on them. We've had a couple guys do UOA's at around 6,000 miles, but I don't have them handy. Unfortunately, some of the results have been erroneous from problems at the lab (very high Ni content......and the engine doesn't have any Ni). I had Millers do an analysis on one, and it found the oil to be fine, with no trace of Ni. I can't post it, as I need to take the customer's name and contact info off before I do. Will try to.

Another anecdotal thing, and I would NOT do this, but the Managing Director of Technology at Millers (one of 4 highest ranking folks there, and the highest technical guy) runs it in his street car. He would get 20,000 miles out of it in a diesel Jaguar. Again, I wouldn't do that, but it was fine for him (and obviously he tested it frequently).

By teh way......I used to think highly of BITOG, but having spent time there, there are as many fools there as there are anywhere. It is not very well policed, and I've had run-ins with a couple of competitors.......one a Polish fellow who has had a history of nefarious activity against my Polish counterpart, and who on BITOG published a sabatoged UOA that was quite easily proven to be manipulated (e.g. TAN wildly inconsistent with additive content). There have been others, too.

Y'all can feel free to PM me, I am going to report this post to Bob, as I really don't mean to get outside the scope of objective bystander. So he may delete this.

333pg333

I've also thought BITOG to be biased when reading it in the past. In my opinion they seemed to promote Mobil products or at least promote a regular contributor on there who was a big proponent for all things M.

Dutch944

You just made my day! Hahahaha

Harry; Thanks for all the info!! This really increases my understanding in oils, which one to choose and how to interpret on when i need to change it. Luckily my company has a contractor that does oil measurements (chemical) for our generators so i can easily send a sample from my engine oil along!

Cyberpunky

???

333pg333

From memory Bruce there isn't an agent for Millers down under.

67King

Sorry I missed this one earlier. Unfortunately, we've not been able to get a dealer in Australia sorted out. I've had some communication with MIllers about trying to find one, and there are some tests going on with the road trains you have down there, but that is teh commercial side.

As for a stock Turbo.....I personally like proper race oils because of the heat. However, they certainly aren't cheap. If you don't drive them hard for sustained periods of time (and if we're honest, that is pretty hard to do on the street), a Group III ("synthetic" street oil) is a fair choice. As most of them at this point are low ZDDP, you have to be careful. I believe that Motul may have a line of Classic types of oils, I'm not positive. Millers has a "Classic High Performance 15w50" that is basically a modern synthetic (again, Gr III), with modern detergents and dispersants, but has elevated ZDDP levels to match the proper requirements of pre-OBD-II engines. It is a great oil for cars made up until the 90's. But note that it does not have the nanotechnology, which has shown incredible capability to reduce wear.

So I would look for something like that. Shoot for 1000-1300ppm ZDDP if you can find out the info. Again, I believe Motul has something like that. There may be a couple of others, two come to mind, and I have enough data at my disposal to keep me from ever considering running either in my car, but I don't want to publicly call out any brands in a negative light, so I don't want to recommend them.

If you track your car, I would recommend using a proper race oil. And that means you almost certainly gotta mail order it. Or more directly, it isn't the stuff on the shelf at Pep Boys. I unfortunately learned my lesson the hard way when I got only about 500 miles on an engine when it destroyed the bearings running VR-1. There were likely other contributing factors, but this being before I was in the industry, I thought all VR-1 (hey it is "Valvoline Racing") was created equal. And I'm sorry for calling out VR-1 specifically, I'm not trying to pick on them, but due to their marketing, it is easy to confuse it with a race oil.

86 951 Driver

So you are saying that Brad Penn is no bueno?

67King

No, not saying that. I was referring to a couple of oils that are more known synthetics, rather than conventionals.

TurboTommy

One thing I do like about BITOG is the virgin oil analysis section.
One can see the ppm's of different oils with regards to the detergent levels, moly, zinc and phosphorus. This can maybe help make a decision on what oil to use.
Also, the redline street oil was only very casually mentioned
To the OP: it's everything you want: long drain intervals (lots of detergents), high moly, contains group V, a good amount of ZDDP(1300-1500)

I use a franken-blend of redline street and diesel oil.
Oils that can be used for diesels also have decent ZDDP, are the right weight, and lots of detergents. Their detergent package usually contains a high amount of magnesium which I understand is good for keeping soot under control. Turbo engines also can have soot problems because of the enevitably higher amounts of oil contamination (boost and richer mixtures), which is one of the causes of sticky rings.
67King; your thoughts on this?