LS conversions. Let's hear it.
#16
Thanks Bruce, it pretty much sums up with the view I've gathered so far.
I need more power and a dry sump and going through used engines is not really an option for me and not that easily found in Sweden.
A brand new Mast Motorsport crate engine with 630 crank hp would be upwards 25K USD when everything is said and done and although that would be nice and warranty backed I might as well continue the 3.0l 16v turbo route.
I need more power and a dry sump and going through used engines is not really an option for me and not that easily found in Sweden.
A brand new Mast Motorsport crate engine with 630 crank hp would be upwards 25K USD when everything is said and done and although that would be nice and warranty backed I might as well continue the 3.0l 16v turbo route.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...s/viewall.html
When it comes down to it, to set up motors properly in the 500whp range, it's all going to end up close to the same money. That is a Lot of power. And for you being over seas, it makes it especially difficult.
BUT.. To get reliable 400whp over here. The V8 is a pretty shining example. I know my 2.5 wasn't going to handle it without blowing a gasket at least 3x's a year. That's just obnoxious. And I can change those out pretty quick. But to end a track weekend early over it is annoying at best.
That said, I am extremely happy you are staying on the 3.0 16v route. I have higher hopes for that motor. Stay the course and make some serious power. I can't wait for your first day out with that beast at full song.
Last edited by 95ONE; 11-14-2012 at 10:47 AM.
#18
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Nov 2007
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TBH i didn't really read through all the responses, so sorry if i say something that's already been covered, but:
For a track car, probably not worth it. The main thing you're buying is reliability. Sure you can make 450rwhp out of a 944/968 engine, but how long is it going to last?
The v8 swap also isn't as easy as just swapping out the engine: you'll have to find a way to put power brakes on, fix what the engine spacers do to the front suspension, etc. Of course, a lot of that is going to be a problem with any swap.
Personally if i had a good engine i'd probably do the 'blown 944' engine upgrade, then get some good fuel management in there and call it a day.
For a track car, probably not worth it. The main thing you're buying is reliability. Sure you can make 450rwhp out of a 944/968 engine, but how long is it going to last?
The v8 swap also isn't as easy as just swapping out the engine: you'll have to find a way to put power brakes on, fix what the engine spacers do to the front suspension, etc. Of course, a lot of that is going to be a problem with any swap.
Personally if i had a good engine i'd probably do the 'blown 944' engine upgrade, then get some good fuel management in there and call it a day.
#19
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Hmm. There are certainly cheaper. Katech is the deal I would look at the hardest. They are local to me here in Houston and have a pretty fantastic reputation. HELL, look at the GM performance motor straight from GM.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...s/viewall.html
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...s/viewall.html
Factor in 600 hp crate engine, dry sump kit with cast shallow pan and 3-4 stage pump, MAF, EMS, injectors, alternator, headers, starter, conversion kit, flywheel, clutch. Everything adds up!
#20
Drifting
Liners and dry sump seem to be the natural progression rather than starting over with a new setup.
#21
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Too much weight. I even think the straight 6's with turbo would be a tad too heavyweight. For a track car weight and balance is more important when you start going over a certain power level.
#22
Katech definitely seem to be a top player, but when I wrote 25K I mean when everything is done.
Factor in 600 hp crate engine, dry sump kit with cast shallow pan and 3-4 stage pump, MAF, EMS, injectors, alternator, headers, starter, conversion kit, flywheel, clutch. Everything adds up!
Factor in 600 hp crate engine, dry sump kit with cast shallow pan and 3-4 stage pump, MAF, EMS, injectors, alternator, headers, starter, conversion kit, flywheel, clutch. Everything adds up!
#23
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
TBH i didn't really read through all the responses, so sorry if i say something that's already been covered, but:
For a track car, probably not worth it. The main thing you're buying is reliability. Sure you can make 450rwhp out of a 944/968 engine, but how long is it going to last?
The v8 swap also isn't as easy as just swapping out the engine: you'll have to find a way to put power brakes on, fix what the engine spacers do to the front suspension, etc. Of course, a lot of that is going to be a problem with any swap.
Personally if i had a good engine i'd probably do the 'blown 944' engine upgrade, then get some good fuel management in there and call it a day.
For a track car, probably not worth it. The main thing you're buying is reliability. Sure you can make 450rwhp out of a 944/968 engine, but how long is it going to last?
The v8 swap also isn't as easy as just swapping out the engine: you'll have to find a way to put power brakes on, fix what the engine spacers do to the front suspension, etc. Of course, a lot of that is going to be a problem with any swap.
Personally if i had a good engine i'd probably do the 'blown 944' engine upgrade, then get some good fuel management in there and call it a day.
#24
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
I had to switch out a leaking Cometic gasket early on, but I replaced it with a stock 968 gasket and everything worked perfect. The head gasket even looked new upon tear down. That is after ~5000 kilometers including the 514 rwhp dyno run. So with a dry sump I'm pretty confident it should be fairly reliable too.
#25
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
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my conversion is topping $35 k. but to be fair, $8 k was in the spare transmission, rebuild and upgrades.
why i'm still not driving ? business has been slow the past year,
and also an 18 week work stoppage this past summer to say goodbye to my mother.
those parts add up fast. i haven't even ordered the driveshaft from Constantine.
#26
#27
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
A turbo V8 doesn't appeal to me at all for a track car, but 600+ hp in N/A form is another thing.
The only turbo V8 I would want is a Hartley V8... droooooooooooooooooool
#28
Three Wheelin'
A couple notes from someone who has done a serious race car V8 conversion.
1. A properly completed V8 conversion is north of $20k if properly executed with new parts (uness you are an ace mechanic/fabricator with a shop). That's using already well prepped race/track car. I won't use used parts on the race car.
2. GM sells the new longblock LS6 as a "race" motor and it is up to task for either sprint or endurance racing with the following caveats;
A. Dry sump or well executed Accusump is applied.
B. Heat is monitored and controlled.
C. Valve springs should replaced on a stock motor and inspected every 4 race weekends and after every endurance race.
D. To reduce stress on both the drive train and chassis I am running at a restricted 322 HP. Any increase in horsepower will result in a significant increase in cost - larger rear wheels and tires, wider bodywork and accelerated part replacement.
E. New motor with intake, pumps, headers, radiator etc - $9K, Bell housing clutch, motorsport axles etc 5K. That's just to get the ball rolling.
This properly executed example, with very little track time, was very competitive with factory built and supported Mustang Boss 302R race cars.
1. A properly completed V8 conversion is north of $20k if properly executed with new parts (uness you are an ace mechanic/fabricator with a shop). That's using already well prepped race/track car. I won't use used parts on the race car.
2. GM sells the new longblock LS6 as a "race" motor and it is up to task for either sprint or endurance racing with the following caveats;
A. Dry sump or well executed Accusump is applied.
B. Heat is monitored and controlled.
C. Valve springs should replaced on a stock motor and inspected every 4 race weekends and after every endurance race.
D. To reduce stress on both the drive train and chassis I am running at a restricted 322 HP. Any increase in horsepower will result in a significant increase in cost - larger rear wheels and tires, wider bodywork and accelerated part replacement.
E. New motor with intake, pumps, headers, radiator etc - $9K, Bell housing clutch, motorsport axles etc 5K. That's just to get the ball rolling.
This properly executed example, with very little track time, was very competitive with factory built and supported Mustang Boss 302R race cars.
#29
That's just where so many get lost in the conversion. It just isn't as cheap as it seems.
- If you do all the work and piece part it together with Eric at TPC for the conversion, I'm sure you can get it all in there for much less. With a helluva buy at a junk yard, I'd say as cheaply as $4K if you're happy with around 300-350@ the wheels. Which is no slouch of course. So it certainly CAN be done. The extra power items can be added later. Doing this yourself is a clear advantage.
But if you don't do the work - or maybe a little, and want 400whp, you're still looking at something close to $10K or more. Start going north of 400whp and the costs rise sharply.
- If you do all the work and piece part it together with Eric at TPC for the conversion, I'm sure you can get it all in there for much less. With a helluva buy at a junk yard, I'd say as cheaply as $4K if you're happy with around 300-350@ the wheels. Which is no slouch of course. So it certainly CAN be done. The extra power items can be added later. Doing this yourself is a clear advantage.
But if you don't do the work - or maybe a little, and want 400whp, you're still looking at something close to $10K or more. Start going north of 400whp and the costs rise sharply.
#30
If you're staying in the 400HP range the best bang for the buck clutch package is a Centerforce Pressure Plate and Sachs clutch disc BBD4163. Just bought another 2 sets for my next build and another swap kit.