Still surprised - Rogue A-Tune is no placebo effect...
03-15-2012, 04:46 PM
#16
Seems most folks pointed everything out in my original post (Rogue's MAP inclusion, updated software strategy, etc.) 
As for my "build"... LOL... from a motor and power standpoint, the car is pretty much stock save for a 3" exhaust and TiAL wastegate. Stock 26/6, stock AFM, stock injectors, etc. So it's pretty easy to swap chips back and forth if I wanted to. Nothing special here that would require a custom tune to run properly. Sid hit the nail on the head - the part throttle driveability is MUCH improved. Spent the day yesterday running errands and stuff, and found myself running around a gear lower everywhere from where I usually am with the A-Tune around town (small hills, general traffic, etc.) There just isn't any torque available below 3000rpm without it.
MarkRobinson - you're not the only one who has asked for a "fuel economy" tune $4.33/gal here this morning.
As for my "build"... LOL... from a motor and power standpoint, the car is pretty much stock save for a 3" exhaust and TiAL wastegate. Stock 26/6, stock AFM, stock injectors, etc. So it's pretty easy to swap chips back and forth if I wanted to. Nothing special here that would require a custom tune to run properly. Sid hit the nail on the head - the part throttle driveability is MUCH improved. Spent the day yesterday running errands and stuff, and found myself running around a gear lower everywhere from where I usually am with the A-Tune around town (small hills, general traffic, etc.) There just isn't any torque available below 3000rpm without it.
MarkRobinson - you're not the only one who has asked for a "fuel economy" tune
$4.33/gal here this morning.
03-15-2012, 04:49 PM
#17
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$10/gal would mean I'd be getting back into motorcycles, and for sure I'd have a very different fleet of cars. And I'd probably be driving a base 944 N/A (30mpg+) vs. my Turbo (low 20s.)
03-15-2012, 06:14 PM
#18
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Just to address your question since you quoted me/asked directly....
The Welt chip ran pretty good, actually. Until I tried the A-Tune I had no real complaints. (And Rogue himself commented that the Welt chips are one of the "better" ones.) I sold my set to somebody here, I assume they're happy with them.
As already stated - the improvement was in the part-throttle and around-town stuff. Much smoother power, a LOT more low end and mid-range available. I no longer needed to drop down from 5th to 4th when cruising at 45mph and climbing a small hill. Hopping out into traffic is MUCH easier - in fact this scenario is where it hit me yesterday how big of a difference there was. I was attempting to pull out into 50mph traffic from a side road (which also happens to be slightly uphill.) There was a small gap and I tried to jump out briskly (not hair-on-fire, tail out and tires blazing... just a 50% throttle attempt at a merge.) Normally this isn't a problem - I exit this very side road with coffee several times a week. I pulled out and as I merged realized, "Uh oh... not really moving as quickly as I expected" and wound up flooring it... and waited... and waited... (as the car behind me is approaching) before BOOOOST and WHOOSH. My wife complained because she had a hard time holding on to her coffee and gave me kind of a "what the hell was that for?" look. Sorry, dear.
The Welt chip ran pretty good, actually. Until I tried the A-Tune I had no real complaints. (And Rogue himself commented that the Welt chips are one of the "better" ones.) I sold my set to somebody here, I assume they're happy with them.
As already stated - the improvement was in the part-throttle and around-town stuff. Much smoother power, a LOT more low end and mid-range available. I no longer needed to drop down from 5th to 4th when cruising at 45mph and climbing a small hill. Hopping out into traffic is MUCH easier - in fact this scenario is where it hit me yesterday how big of a difference there was. I was attempting to pull out into 50mph traffic from a side road (which also happens to be slightly uphill.) There was a small gap and I tried to jump out briskly (not hair-on-fire, tail out and tires blazing... just a 50% throttle attempt at a merge.) Normally this isn't a problem - I exit this very side road with coffee several times a week. I pulled out and as I merged realized, "Uh oh... not really moving as quickly as I expected" and wound up flooring it... and waited... and waited... (as the car behind me is approaching) before BOOOOST and WHOOSH. My wife complained because she had a hard time holding on to her coffee and gave me kind of a "what the hell was that for?" look. Sorry, dear.
Brian
03-15-2012, 06:22 PM
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As already stated - the improvement was in the part-throttle and around-town stuff. Much smoother power, a LOT more low end and mid-range available.
And that was exactly what I was looking for....ordered my M-Tune last week.....
And that was exactly what I was looking for....ordered my M-Tune last week.....
03-15-2012, 06:24 PM
#20
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And your improvement should be even more drastic since the MAF itself should help.
And I'm waiting for my M-Tune upgrade to show up as well!
03-15-2012, 09:15 PM
#21
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I have definitely run into harness issues. One of the most heavily recommended maintenance/upgrades I suggest are the LR replacement wiring kits. 25+ years for the factory wiring, its done its job, now is a good time to upgrade. I would like to see them do a complete engine harness kit...
This is a picture of a very common issue, TPS signal dropout. When the TPS signal is intermittent, the DME/KLR interpret it as a WOT condition:
This is a picture of a very common issue, TPS signal dropout. When the TPS signal is intermittent, the DME/KLR interpret it as a WOT condition:
Maybe replacements for these two harnesses (one, really) could be future offerings on the Rogue Tuning website?
03-15-2012, 09:21 PM
#22
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I wouldn't do that really. That maf may be very expensive if it needs to be replaced. The one josh sells is designed to be used for over 100k miles.
Idk if you have e85 around, but I can get pretty good mileage running 18:1 afr in certain areas. Just a thought.
03-15-2012, 09:51 PM
#23
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Hey Joshua, been reading up, following your tuning: impressive. My buddy Jeff Lent just bought an M-tune from you for his race car: I'm aching to see how that runs.
Question: for the M-tune including larger injectors: I currently run the Vitesse chip & 245/285 tires: my mileage sucks & the car is my daily commuter: about 50m round-trip per day, averaging about 18-19mpg in town/hwy combo: cannot get it any better than that even driving granny-style. My turbocharged 550hp 928 gets about 17-18mpg on average in the city NOT driving it granny style, same tire sizes but a few hundred pounds heavier.
Are your cruise maps set for more efficient fuel MPG? I know 14.7 is the industry norm, but my 928 runs great averaging 15.0-15.3 w/o any issues, hiccups (cruise), and I can even top 26mpg on the highway. Just curious. I think V's tune is more for performance & not fuel monitoring...something to consider as fuel creeps closer to $4/gallon again.
Thanks, Mark
Question: for the M-tune including larger injectors: I currently run the Vitesse chip & 245/285 tires: my mileage sucks & the car is my daily commuter: about 50m round-trip per day, averaging about 18-19mpg in town/hwy combo: cannot get it any better than that even driving granny-style. My turbocharged 550hp 928 gets about 17-18mpg on average in the city NOT driving it granny style, same tire sizes but a few hundred pounds heavier.
Are your cruise maps set for more efficient fuel MPG? I know 14.7 is the industry norm, but my 928 runs great averaging 15.0-15.3 w/o any issues, hiccups (cruise), and I can even top 26mpg on the highway. Just curious. I think V's tune is more for performance & not fuel monitoring...something to consider as fuel creeps closer to $4/gallon again.
Thanks, Mark
Great point, but unfortunately neither Lindsey or anyone else makes a replacement TPS harness. I have every harness LR makes in my car, and the TPS and AFM harness are still the original crusty stuff.
Maybe replacements for these two harnesses (one, really) could be future offerings on the Rogue Tuning website?
Maybe replacements for these two harnesses (one, really) could be future offerings on the Rogue Tuning website?
http://www.lindseyracing.com/LR/Pors...-951-TPSC.html
Though I find their prices to be ridiculously high. Not only that, but doing it right would include different wire colors, so diagnosis and install is easier.
Though I find their prices to be ridiculously high. Not only that, but doing it right would include different wire colors, so diagnosis and install is easier.
).However, having sourced a lot of the pins, boots, plugs, ect - I don't think the prices are unreasonable. Obviously many of us could do the legwork and make the harnesses that LR sells - however, I don't have the time or desire... much better things deserve my attention. I will happily pay a little extra to get some time back.
03-15-2012, 10:32 PM
#24
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http://www.lindseyracing.com/LR/Pors...-951-TPSC.html
Though I find their prices to be ridiculously high. Not only that, but doing it right would include different wire colors, so diagnosis and install is easier.
Though I find their prices to be ridiculously high. Not only that, but doing it right would include different wire colors, so diagnosis and install is easier.
03-15-2012, 10:36 PM
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Their harnesses have different colored wires... the TPS kit is just a connector with a short generic pigtail, it's not a harness.
03-15-2012, 10:42 PM
#26
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These are harness', and the prices are very reasonable.
As already mentioned, by the time you source the plugs, boots, pins, wire, and sheathing, then put it all together in the correct lengths, you'd be very hard pressed to do it for the same price (if your time is worth anything).
As already mentioned, by the time you source the plugs, boots, pins, wire, and sheathing, then put it all together in the correct lengths, you'd be very hard pressed to do it for the same price (if your time is worth anything).
03-15-2012, 10:46 PM
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Agreed...All the harness have different colored wire. The harness are well made, good instructions and there is no way that they can purchase the plugs, pins, wire and shield and cover labor costs for $20. And Lindsey did the TPS connector with splice wires at a request from a RL post....we asked for it, they provided it. Wish people would speak from experience rather then from a quick Google.
I spent hours redoing my TPS wires and connector when I put in the replacement harness, made me appreciate the other Lindsey harnesses I put in.
I spent hours redoing my TPS wires and connector when I put in the replacement harness, made me appreciate the other Lindsey harnesses I put in.
03-16-2012, 12:30 AM
#28
03-16-2012, 12:03 PM
#30
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As others have said - sourcing the connectors, pins, wires, etc. is a pain.
I just redid the part of my harness that connects the reference sensors. I sourced the plugs myself - found a guy on the other side of the planet (literally) who had them (Netherlands I think - don't recall exactly right now.) The connectors themselves were fairly cheap (couple bucks each) - but shipping was ridiculous. I wound up buying a dozen of each just to make the shipping costs worth it.
I've contemplated rebuilding my entire harness... but it's a LOT more work than you think. Back when I was a kid, I used to go into work with my dad on the weekends to help him put together engine harnesses for some prototype trucks he was working on (he worked for Navistar - a place I eventually worked for when I got older.) Very, very tedious work. Cutting wires to length, crimping pins on and making sure you have a good crimp, etc. It sounds easy but trust me, when you've got a rat's nest of wire in your lap....
I still may tackle it some day, if perhaps I come across a used extra harness somewhere to model it after (so I don't have to yank the harness out of my car to copy it...)
Those Lindsey harnesses aren't too overpriced IMO. Factor in the cost of tracking down the connectors and pins, having them shipped, then paying someone to sit there and assemble them... they're a business, not a charity.
I just redid the part of my harness that connects the reference sensors. I sourced the plugs myself - found a guy on the other side of the planet (literally) who had them (Netherlands I think - don't recall exactly right now.) The connectors themselves were fairly cheap (couple bucks each) - but shipping was ridiculous. I wound up buying a dozen of each just to make the shipping costs worth it.
I've contemplated rebuilding my entire harness... but it's a LOT more work than you think. Back when I was a kid, I used to go into work with my dad on the weekends to help him put together engine harnesses for some prototype trucks he was working on (he worked for Navistar - a place I eventually worked for when I got older.) Very, very tedious work. Cutting wires to length, crimping pins on and making sure you have a good crimp, etc. It sounds easy but trust me, when you've got a rat's nest of wire in your lap....
I still may tackle it some day, if perhaps I come across a used extra harness somewhere to model it after (so I don't have to yank the harness out of my car to copy it...)
Those Lindsey harnesses aren't too overpriced IMO. Factor in the cost of tracking down the connectors and pins, having them shipped, then paying someone to sit there and assemble them... they're a business, not a charity.