User 52121

So I'm experimenting with a few things here, and as such, have found myself running my car for a few days with a Lindsey DME chip in the car (vs. the Rogue A-Tune chip.)

MAN is this thing a DOG off of boost. I forgot how much lag this thing had, it really does kind of waffle around until the boost comes up.

I felt a big improvement when I went from my old Welt chip to the Rogue A-Tune but figured some of it was probably placebo effect. I did NOT expect such a difference going backwards.

Anyways, just thought I'd share.

carlege

I didnt think that lindsays chip would work with the other components in the A tune package

Zuba951

"I felt a big improvement when I went from my old Welt chip to the Rogue A-Tune but figured some of it was probably placebo effect. I did NOT expect such a difference going backwards."

I have an 86 951 and when my car was stock I put the Welt chips in and it ran great. What was the big improvement?

Brian

blown 944

The main difference is due to the utilization of a full timing/fuel map, rather than using the WOT timing and fueling map. Most chips try to increase timing in the part throttle and still use conservative timing in the WOT map. This is a huge contributor to such laggy performance when initially stepping on it.


Getting away from the antiquated factory style tune is a big improvement IMO.

Black51

I believe the A-tune also advances timing when off boost, through use of the MAP and 3D fuel map. I wouldn't doubt it runs way better, although I bet some of the reason his car runs like a 'dog' with the old chip is because the tune is way off from the build.

Edit: dang, beat me to it.

gregeast

Because Rogue's setup up utilizes a MAP to tell his chip what boost pressure is and then sets timing appropriate to that level of boost the part throttle response is much better compared to stock (and most other setups).

Since a street driven car spends the vast majority of its time at something other than idle or full throttle (i.e. part throttle), this makes a noticeable improvement in driveability, which was all Omni was trying to say. It drives much more like a 'normal' car off boost and at less than full boost. My understanding is that the input from the MAP utilizes a normally unused circuit on the DME so you can swap back to a non-Rogue chip w/o issue.

Edit: Sorry for the repeat, looks like a couple posted at the same time.

Black51

Hey! We're not a couple!

Rogue_Ant

One of the greatest strengths of my Tunes is that they adapt well to changes. If he wants to run 10psi of boost on Monday, 15psi on Tuesday, upgrade exhausts on Wednesday - no problem. The Tune will see and understand both the change in airflow and difference in boost pressure.

Agreed - which is unfortunate, because hardware related issues can be a pain to troubleshoot and identify. (though I'm working on making that much easier)


Glad to hear it Jim!

Rogue_Ant

I have definitely run into harness issues. One of the most heavily recommended maintenance/upgrades I suggest are the LR replacement wiring kits. 25+ years for the factory wiring, its done its job, now is a good time to upgrade. I would like to see them do a complete engine harness kit...

This is a picture of a very common issue, TPS signal dropout. When the TPS signal is intermittent, the DME/KLR interpret it as a WOT condition:

MarkRobinson

Hey Joshua, been reading up, following your tuning: impressive. My buddy Jeff Lent just bought an M-tune from you for his race car: I'm aching to see how that runs.

Question: for the M-tune including larger injectors: I currently run the Vitesse chip & 245/285 tires: my mileage sucks & the car is my daily commuter: about 50m round-trip per day, averaging about 18-19mpg in town/hwy combo: cannot get it any better than that even driving granny-style. My turbocharged 550hp 928 gets about 17-18mpg on average in the city NOT driving it granny style, same tire sizes but a few hundred pounds heavier.

Are your cruise maps set for more efficient fuel MPG? I know 14.7 is the industry norm, but my 928 runs great averaging 15.0-15.3 w/o any issues, hiccups (cruise), and I can even top 26mpg on the highway. Just curious. I think V's tune is more for performance & not fuel monitoring...something to consider as fuel creeps closer to $4/gallon again.

Thanks, Mark

gregeast

Nope, we're a 3-some with Syd...

Mark: Rogue did a custom tune for me that allowed me to keep my Vitesse MAF, only addition was the MAP sensor and of course the chip. It ran great before, it runs even better now, very happy with the swap.

User 52121

Seems most folks pointed everything out in my original post (Rogue's MAP inclusion, updated software strategy, etc.)

As for my "build"... LOL... from a motor and power standpoint, the car is pretty much stock save for a 3" exhaust and TiAL wastegate. Stock 26/6, stock AFM, stock injectors, etc. So it's pretty easy to swap chips back and forth if I wanted to. Nothing special here that would require a custom tune to run properly. Sid hit the nail on the head - the part throttle driveability is MUCH improved. Spent the day yesterday running errands and stuff, and found myself running around a gear lower everywhere from where I usually am with the A-Tune around town (small hills, general traffic, etc.) There just isn't any torque available below 3000rpm without it.

MarkRobinson - you're not the only one who has asked for a "fuel economy" tune $4.33/gal here this morning.

User 52121

TMI

User 52121

Just to address your question since you quoted me/asked directly....

The Welt chip ran pretty good, actually. Until I tried the A-Tune I had no real complaints. (And Rogue himself commented that the Welt chips are one of the "better" ones.) I sold my set to somebody here, I assume they're happy with them.

As already stated - the improvement was in the part-throttle and around-town stuff. Much smoother power, a LOT more low end and mid-range available. I no longer needed to drop down from 5th to 4th when cruising at 45mph and climbing a small hill. Hopping out into traffic is MUCH easier - in fact this scenario is where it hit me yesterday how big of a difference there was. I was attempting to pull out into 50mph traffic from a side road (which also happens to be slightly uphill.) There was a small gap and I tried to jump out briskly (not hair-on-fire, tail out and tires blazing... just a 50% throttle attempt at a merge.) Normally this isn't a problem - I exit this very side road with coffee several times a week. I pulled out and as I merged realized, "Uh oh... not really moving as quickly as I expected" and wound up flooring it... and waited... and waited... (as the car behind me is approaching) before BOOOOST and WHOOSH. My wife complained because she had a hard time holding on to her coffee and gave me kind of a "what the hell was that for?" look. Sorry, dear.

MarkRobinson

I'm overdue for a MAF conversion: I have a lead on an older Lindsay unit with the calibration 4-dial fine-tuner: I might go that route & add the Rogue touch to it, but the idea of new, more efficient injectors might steer me to buy the whole thing.