Thom

Porsche must be wrong... After all they put Mobil 1 in their engines...

Duke

Great info Tony.
Makes me wonder why so many GT3 factory developed race cars run a spoiler.

333pg333

Lol...actually even when they had M1 emblazoned across some of their racecar's flanks, they were using a straight 50w Shell-Oil....Even Porsche succumbed to the pull of the almighty dollar.

As for this wing/spoiler debate, I shall try and find an excerpt from my expert suggesting that a small lip below the main spoiler is ok or good. At least that's what I think he said. My gut tells me that the rubber spoiler on our cars would be counter-productive to a large wing though....and my gut is getting bigger the older I grow!

67King

That means NOTHING. All of that nonsense is routine. There's a Total sponsored F1 team that uses Shell, too. And next year, several teams may very well be running an oil not affiliated with any of them, from a sponsorship perspective (anyone in Europe, pay attention next month to what is introduced at Autosport).

TonyG

A couple of things...

I could ask but I don't want to wear out my welcome. But two things come to mind. A) the shape of the lip on the GT3 is not the same thing that's on the back of a 951 thus the air passing over it is affected differently. And B) they have two large air intakes "scoops" just before the lip, directly under the wing. These probably are creating some positive pressure. My guess would be that somehow the lip helps negate that effect.

Lastly... seems like a damn good place to bolt a wing onto.... :-)


Seriously though... the answer for our cars is that the factory spoiler will create positive pressure to some degree. And that that pressure is directly under the wing. The net result is that you have to run a larger angle of attack on the wing to compensate. That translates into more drag from the big wing in order to get the same lift (down force in this case).

The only remaining question would be to quantify this. And to do that you'd need a wind tunnel.

Considering his credentials (and the fact that whomever you ask has most likely used his very text books in college and as a continuing reference source), you should remove the stock wing if you're running a big wing.


TonyG

333pg333

Well it might mean nothing when you're an insider but to the general public it appears that you are using and extolling their advertised product.
To extrapolate. If I decided to change to M1 back about 10 years ago based on advertising and even what Porsche US put on their approved Oil lists and I just happened to spin a bearing or destroy an engine because they just decided to remove a fairly significant percentage of their ZDDP package without announcing this, who would I send my bill to for the repairs? That's correct...nobody else but me would be paying for this. So while you assert that this all means nothing I respectfully beg to differ. Porsche has aligned itself with M1 for years even though at times it wasn't the best option for us. Especially those with flat tappet engines.

67King

No, I apologize. I meant to say that what is on the side of the race car means nothing when you consider what they run. Sorry for the confusion!

BTW.....is Millers Oils available in Australia?

Lemming

In the States, we refer to that as ballast

333pg333

No offense taken at all. I was just making a point about advertising and Porsche. Also, re-reading my post, I wasn't implying that you were extolling M1.
I can't see Miller oils having a distributor down here, but there possibly is. Is this the company that you're working with Karl?

Seems like everyone who mentions their weight on this site is over 200lbs so that's a bit of ballast!!

67King

Yeah, Performance Racing Oils. We're the North American distributor.