racerxrick

Was just thinking...since your dealing with the other drivers insurance you may want your carrier to go to bat for you as well. I recall doing that in the past with a classic Chevy truck that was hit.

ramius665

JohnKoaWood used the valuations in Excellence, NADA and got in contact with PCA. They significantly revised their offer after that.

reno808

My father and i havent had any issues for over 10 years with them. I have 67 fastback my dad has 66gt and a 65 conv no issues at all. racerxrick has it as well

JohnKoaWood

I did indeed, resulting in a check larger than their original valuation after my deductible and buyback amounts were taken out..

The revised value for my 88 NA was revised to $7K.. making 10,5 for a newly rebuilt 951, with upgrades unbelievable to me!

Might I suggest you contact your insurance company, and get them involved?

racerxrick

+1

azbanks

So what would the RL community value my car at with less then 2000 miles on the rebuilt engine and associated upgrades. Here are most of the things that have been done to it. I sent this list in an email to the insurance company. It did help. The increased their offer...



by $51 dollars.




There are no original parts in the drive train. Everything from the air filter to the tail pipe is replaced, new, and upgraded. The engine, intake, and exhaust, it all has less than 2000 miles on it. Here is a list of the things that have less than 2000 miles on them.

The fuel filter is new.
The air metering system is new, upgraded and custom painted.
The engine control computer is replaced, upgraded, and has a new, upgraded chip. This is a new technology upgrade that didn't even exist 12 months ago. 2011 technology in my 1986 car.
The Turbo is replaced, upgraded, and rebuilt.
The turbo boost controller is new and upgraded.
An air/fuel meter and gauge has been added. This is a new upgrade that did not exist from the factory and allows for better monitoring of the engine combustion.
The intercooler pipes are new, upgraded and custom painted.
The throttlebody is replaced and rebuilt.
The intake manifold is rebuilt and custom painted.
The intake manifold bolts are new.
The fuel injectors are new and upgraded.
The cylinder head is replaced and rebuilt.
The cylinder head gasket is new and upgraded.
The cylinder head nuts and washers are new.
The cam is replaced.
The valve lifters are replaced.
The cam tower box is replaced, rebuilt and custom painted.
The cam gear cover is replaced and custom painted.
The pistons are new and high performance coated.
The piston rings are new and upgraded.
The piston connecting rods are replaced and resized.
The piston connecting rod bolts are new and upgraded.
The crank shaft is replaced and custom polished.
The engine block is replaced and the cylinder bores are specially honed by a specialty shop in Washington state. There are about a half dozen shops in the whole country who have the correct equipment to properly hone 944 turbo engine blocks. None are in Phoenix
All engine crank and rod bearings are new.
The crank bolts are new.
All of the engine seals and gaskets are new. (there are a lot of them)
The oil pickup and drain tubes are new.
The oil pan is replaced.
The oil pan gasket is new and has gasket retaining brackets that were never on the factory cars and is a big upgrade.
The oil pump is replaced and rebuilt.
The water pump is new.
The timing and balance shaft belts are new and upgraded to kevlar.
All belt rollers are new.
The alternator is new and upgraded.
The alternator belt is new.
All of the coolant hoses are new and upgraded.(there are a lot of them)
All of the vacuum lines are new and upgraded.(there are a lot of them)
All of the bolts holding the engine together are new and most are upgraded.(there are a lot of them)
The exhaust headers are new, upgraded, and ceramic coated.
The turbo downpipe is replaced and upgraded.
The diverter valve is new.
The entire exhaust system is replaced and upgraded.
The catalytic converter is new and upgraded.
The muffler is replaced and upgraded.
The exhaust tip is new and upgraded.
The clamps for all the hoses and intercooler pipes are new and upgraded.
A new coolant vent system was added to the cylinder head. This is an upgrade that never existed from the factory.
The crankcase vent hoses are new and upgraded.
The battery cables are new and upgraded.
The headlights are new and upgraded. They are so advanced that a whole new wiring harness and relay assembly was created and installed just to support the power requirements of the new headlights.
A new additional, upgraded oil cooler was installed to protect the engine in the Arizona heat.
The air conditioning hard lines were replaced.
The engine mounts are new and upgraded.
The steering rack is replaced and upgraded.
The tie rod ends are new.
The front sway bar bushings are new.
The camber blocks(front suspension mounts) are new and upgraded.
The clutch and pressure plate are new and upgraded.
The flywheel is resurfaced.
All clutch hardware is new including all bolts(there are a lot of them) and the pilot bearing.
The transmission is replaced and upgraded(and now broken due to the accident. It will take a major and expensive repair to make it usable again)
The CV joints and axles are new.
The CV bolts are new.
The transmission mount is new and upgraded.
The rear seat belts are replaced and upgraded.
The outer doorhandles are new and upgraded.
The steering wheel is new and upgraded.


I've got a bit over $8000 in recent reciepts for the upgrade and rebuild parts?




The car has about 190,000 miles on it, The paint looks ok but has been buffed through to the primer on the hood character lines. The dash is cracked and the drivers seat has a split in it.


So, RL community, what should I accept for a value?

User 52121

Ugh... I wouldn't even know where to begin... but what you're facing is definitely a fear of mine in the event the sh*t ever hits the fan with my car. I haven't sunk in quite as much as you in motor work (about half that, last year) but I worry that the insurance company is going to look at my car, say "It's got 157,000 miles on it" and give me a few peanuts and call it even.

In fact I had a minor incident 2 weeks ago - front bumper took a hit. Took the car over to the body shop, and an adjuster from Geico was there. (I have State Farm.) The Geico guy is friends with the body man - so we were all standing around BS'ing. He went outside, looked at my car, asked "What year is it?" I told him "1986" and his immediate response was, "I'd total it." All it needs is a new bumper support underneath and a bumper cover respray.

Fortunately State Farm covered the repairs... and I'm tossing in a few bucks on top to have the whole front clip resprayed since it's got some chips and scratches on the hood. But I'm well aware now that, when it comes to insurance, the money I sink into this thing is money lost if I ever DO total it out. Really probably the only way I'd get the money back out of it is if I went with a specialty company and a stated-value policy... which I'm sure will be $$$$$ compared to what I pay now.

racerxrick

involve your insurance company...

Scott H

Not as much as you would think. Give Hagerty a call for a quote, you might be surprised. Stated-value is the only way to safely insure these cars now, even if your car is stock. What good is insurance at all if it doesn't cover all/most of what you've spent?

black944 turbo

Hagerty should cost you less than State Farm. I know this from experience.

audisport

I would talk to a collectible car business and and see if you can get a written appraisal in your favor. They should be able to make a good assessment as to what it would be Pre damage. I did this on my old 240Z and the cost of the appraisal was with it. If the ins co has a written statement from a specialist they will have to argue against it which would be more difficult for them. Receipts of what you spent don't = value unfortunately.

Crackership

I just found this... guess I've been out of the loop.... I don't know what to say except I'm sorry. But this outpouring of support is really what makes owning a 944/951 so fantastic.... sure, for the money it takes to purchase and maintain a quality 951, there are other cars you could have... even some with similar performance figures... but there is absolutely, hands-down, unequivocally no better community on earth!

I hope you're ok... get to a doctor and make sure you and your wife are really ok... another car will come.

They do take a hit pretty well... My old NA died on the front bumper of a Toyota Tundra traveling at a minimum of 100mph that was piloted by a man who was sleeping... I got pushed into the barrier on the left side of the freeway, bounced off, went all the way across the freeway, hit the barrier on the right side, bounced off, went all the way back across the freeway and hit the barrier on the left side again and bounced back into the middle of the freeway before stopping... I must have moved at least 600 yards down the freeway in the process, and my car looked not much worse than AZ's... aside from the shattered hatch, about the same.


I've been down this path, with the above mentioned wreck... It was nowhere near as nice as your 951, but it was an '85.5 NA, with 60k miles... I had just resealed the entire engine, PS system and transaxle. It had nearly new Koni's all around, 951S sway bars front and rear, new bushings, I had just recovered the front seats, the back ones were fine... a few small cracks in the dash and some paint chips were the only things wrong with it....

Insurance initial offer: $1100.
Insurance second offer: $1400
I sued them (I wish it hadn't come to that, I'm not a litigious person)
Insurance 3rd offer: $4000
I sued them some more
After almost 3 years to the day, 9 months of physical therapy, almost 2 years of driving a borrowed (and very poorly maintained) '86 Taurus, and at least a dozen depositions, interviews, negotiations, meetings, blah, blah, blah... I came out the other side with my medical bills paid, about $12k and lingering pain in my back and neck.

I certainly hope that your experience is less horrible, and that your rewards are much greater. FWIW, I use Ameriprise auto insurance, and they have valued my car at $25k, and they don't know about my mods. They told me that some of that was the rare color, but it certainly doesn't account for the majority of the value. Perhaps it's worth contacting some other insurance companies and asking what they would value your car at...

Also, one of the many things I learned while going through that whole fun process I mentioned above is that the insurance company MUST value your car based upon the value of COMPARABLE cars. They can't say, "oh, well, I found 5 1983 944's for $2000, so your car's worth $2000". They can't find a bunch of ragged and shoddy 951's even. They have to find a comparable car. Threaten to call the insurance commissioner in your state if the don't find accurate representation of your car's value, and actually do it if they don't become reasonable.

Another thing I learned is that there are no lawyers who will take your case based upon property loss alone... If you have an injury case, they'll jump all over it, but they won't touch it without injury. So, get to the doctor, and make sure that there isn't more to it.

I wish I didn't have so much experience with this, but if it can be of help to you and others, it makes it (at least sorta) worthwhile.

If there's anything I can do to help, don't hesitate to shoot me a PM. I don't know what I can do, but I do have some experience in these matters.

Best of luck!

Tedro951

Lots of good advice above. I'm in the middle of changing 9 vehicles to USAA. My current policy on the 951 is "actual cash value". The USAA agent mentioned that I should declare a value on it, even though it would cause a premium increase.

I'm sure my cheap premiums up until now are "86 944" minimums, and I've never second guessed the low rate, until reading this thread, and shopping for new insurance. Now I'm willing to pay a premium commensurate to what I think the car is worth.

azbanks

So I took RL advice and got my insurance involved(Allstate).

The adjuster came through with an offer of $12,500 and I get to keep the car. Just had to get her managers approval on it.

Manager said no!

He says they are within $1,800 of fixing it.
They are thinking that they can cut the back half of my car off and weld on the back half of another car.

The body shop and I are telling them that they are insane.



I'm trying to decide if I should take the $12,500 or push for more. That is assuming they come back to reality and figure out that my car is really totaled beyond repair.

Scott H

$12,500 would certainly go a long way. Have you tallied up how much you're going to have to spend on parts outside of another shell? It looks like you may have gotten lucky and nothing important got mangled up in the process. While I personally think your car is worth more you're going to have to weigh how much you value your time/frustration level with the insurance. If you are in no rush, push for more, if you want to get it over with then make one or two counter offers, purchase a nice shell, and get to swapping parts.