OK transaxle, but now we have to keep in mind, that during that time the "official introduction" of the 944 had allready been seen. So the 924 (or 944) GTP can not be seen as an 944 ancestor. Wasn't it simply a 924 fitted with a 944 "test engine"??? It also couldn't manage that well in the Le Mans?

What comes to the 16 valve head, it was not taken to serial production in turbo engines, sooner, probably because of emissions problems.
We have to remember also, that this engine has allways been one half of the 928 V8 engine and as we know, production numbers and price are related...

 

[quote]Originally posted by Nico:
<strong>OK transaxle, but now we have to keep in mind, that during that time the "official introduction" of the 944 had allready been seen....</strong><hr></blockquote>

The race was at June 13-14 1981 (btw.: it was hot & sunny). The official press-announcement of the 944 followed in July. The 944 was first presented in the public at the Frankfurt Motor Show (IAA) in Sept. 18 1981.

[quote]<strong>
So the 924 (or 944) GTP can not be seen as an 944 ancestor. Wasn't it simply a 924 fitted with a 944 "test engine"???
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Wasn't the 944 "just" a 924 GT with half of a 928 engine ? At least, the first prototypes looked like that and you can't find many different parts outside the enginebay.



At that time you also could find the first prototypes of the 944 turbo on the road. Take a look at the rear fender...



[quote]<strong>
It also couldn't manage that well in the Le Mans?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

"Skeptics doubted it would finish, let alone place in the top ten. It was, after all, a David among scores of Goliaths. Nevertheless, it came in an astonishing seventh overall. And spent less time in the pits than any other car in the race."

A quote from this nice advertising, showing a 944GTP alongside the new 944 turbo.

 

OK I have to admit I have missed that. But...

If you read carefully that announcement, you will notice them saying, that the car was some what an inspiration to the 951 later on... The 951 was developed from the 944, not from the 924GTP (924GTP and 951 engines don't have that much in common as we know).
They also claim that the 924GTP (or 944GTP as they say) led to the introdution of the production 944. If the development of the 951 took four years for them to complete, I must say that the development of the 944 was pretty fast, if it lasted only from june to july in 1981!!! Somebody is "pissing in the eye" now!!! This is advertising.

To come back to the original question and what I mean is: We can't say that the 924GTP and it's succes in that race, is part of the 951's racing history. Which I believe was the original question???

Transaxle thanks for your post though. Some pretty good info in it!

 

Posted this thread nearly one year ago. Didn't expect to see it again.

I knew the 951 in its street form didn't race at Le Mans. But the 944GTP is clearly a father of the 944 and 944 Turbo. Whether it is closer to the 924 Turbo or the 944 Turbo....is unresolved?

From an advertising perspective, it appears Porsche wanted it associated with the 944 Turbo.

I've enjoyed the dialogue and information...and at the time of the post was hoping for more information regarding major racing coups for the 944/951 lineage. Not necessarily in stock form.

After all, when someone refers to a 911, it is a pretty broad platform. 911 owners enjoy the rich heritage associated with all of their significant racing triumphs of that lineage, regardless of the year, displacement, etc.

Regards.

Jaxon

 

[quote]Originally posted by Nico:
<strong>
To come back to the original question and what I mean is: We can't say that the 924GTP and it's succes in that race, is part of the 951's racing history. Which I believe was the original question???
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hi Nico,
I think that is exactly the difference in our opinions. For me, there is just one single history & development line from the 924 to the 931,937,939,944,951,968...

...but who cares ? <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Here's another racing - gem. A real 924 Carrera GT (#307) prepared for the track:



and this engine is installed... <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />



Question is: Is this car part of the 951 racing history ? It is homologated by Porsche and FIA in this combination... <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

 

Hey Tom!

Could you post us also a picture of short-nosed version of that very same car...?

I know it's a sad one,but one take risks when racing!

Pete

 

Hi Pete...here they are...





All the pictures from that sad day are <a href="http://www.transaxle.net/ta/Sections/home/picgal/sd.asp?DN=picgal" target="_blank">HERE !</a>

The car was rebuilt to the long-nose version and is running again:

 

The car was rebuilt to the long-nose version and is running again:

&gt;&gt; The car was running for test 2 weeks later !!

And .. 3 weeks later on race-track ( A 1 Ring-Austria)... <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

 

[quote]Originally posted by Turbo-Uli:
<strong>The car was rebuilt to the long-nose version and is running again:

&gt;&gt; The car was running for test 2 weeks later !!

And .. 3 weeks later on race-track ( A 1 Ring-Austria)... <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

 

[quote]Originally posted by Turbo-Uli:
<strong>The car was rebuilt to the long-nose version and is running again:

&gt;&gt; The car was running for test 2 weeks later !!

And .. 3 weeks later on race-track ( A 1 Ring-Austria)... <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

 

To me, the 924GTP is a part of the 951 heritage. As Transaxle said, "For me, there is just one single history & development line from the 924 to the 931,937,939,944,951,968..." IMHO, this is no different than the 356 to 996 development line.

Early on, the 924 was having a hard time establishing itself as a "real" Porsche. IIRC, the 924DP was introduced to entice folks to race the car and thus build an image in a hope to grow sales (especially in the US). There was some internal support for developing the 924 into higher performance versions. The culmination being the 924GTP. But other internal forces knew it needed much more Porsche parts content to define it to customers more clearly. It needed to distance itself from the VW/Audi association. No doubt, the 944 was born and became a huge success. To me, the 924 is part of the family.

Here's how much I like the 9244's...sticking with street car models, I'd trade 2 excellent condition 951's (latest version) for 1 excellent condition 924GTS Club Sport.

Mike

 

[quote]Originally posted by Mike S.:
<strong>
Here's how much I like the 9244's...sticking with street car models, I'd trade 2 excellent condition 951's (latest version) for 1 excellent condition 924GTS Club Sport.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I would be surprised, if any GTS owner would deal with the trade... <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" />

But who knows ... ? Good luck..

 

I can also agree it's part of the 924-968 family, there is no question about that.
The only thing I can't agree, is the GTP seen as a "father" to the 944 (or the 951). The cars don't have that much in common. Suspension, brakes, engine... everything is different. The 944 or 951 simply has more in common with the 931 and the 924S, than with the GTR or GTP.
We can all agree the GTP being a "brother" though, and a wery close one too! :-)

 

In an '87 or 88' issue of Automobile magazine, the magazine featured an article pitting the 944 Turbo S2(Yes, S2, w/16v head) against a 930 turbo. From what I recall, it was an interesting read - the 951 beat the 930 in just about every test.
They did say that the car may or may not come to the US. Obivously it didn't.
From reading posts over the past few years here on Rennlist, I'm surprised the European listers don't know about this car either though. Maybe Porsche cancelled the project all together.

Anyone else know about this car? Btw, the car in the article was *not* a 968.

I contacted Automobile magazine to get a copy of the article.

-Sean

 

[quote]...The only thing I can't agree, is the GTP seen as a "father" to the 944 (or the 951)...
We can all agree the GTP being a "brother" though, and a wery close one too! :-) <hr></blockquote>

I'm going to have to cry 'Uncle'