aka 951

DME editor is for BMW only as far as I know. Jim Conforti is the BMW man and Todd Knightin is the Porsche man. They are the only 2 people in the country that have reverse enginnered Motronic. DME editor is no longer available as it was a trial only time period (evenif you downloaded it before it will no longer work). Distrial (Protomotive - Todd) is still available but is a DOS based program whereas DME editor is a Windows based system.

86944turbo

Brendan,

My 944T uses a MoTeC M4-Pro, with Lambda control and data logging. I agree with Konstatin in that it may not be necessary unless you are building an extreme motor. It really does not matter if this is a street or track motor. The MoTeC is not necessary to just extract the last few ponies from a motor. I allows the programmer complete control over a tremendous number of critical parameters, including 3-D mapping. There are not a large number of engine builders that are capable of programming a MoTeC system. Even the best continue to attend MoTeC classes as new upgrades are made available. I am not the expert to rely on for an answer to your question. However, I have changed cams, added a second fuel pump, re-programmed my 3 boost control settings, adjusted the clamping properties (gain & derivative algorithms), and the MoTeC is able to (with a few proper keystrokes) to make adjustments to any/all changes. It also allows one to use Nitrous, traction control, etc. Mine is programmed to start my intercooler spray bar motor when intake temps excede 39C. It is programmed with a number of safety features that will reduce boost if air/water/oil temps are too high. It is complicated. I have received new maps for my motor over the internet. Very quick, and simple. It is a powerful and complicated system. There have been a couple of occaisions where Jon Milledge has had to come to the car (fly out from MA) to ensure that the Lambda numbers were perfect. My advice, for what it's worth, would be to recemmond that you contact some engine builders that have used MoTeC as well as other systems. Yes, I'm partial to Jon. Not because we're friends, but because I have not found anyone that comes close to his precision, knowledge and integrity. Trust me, he does not charge me any less say this. It is in my mind, just true. Jon used to work for Haltech. Explain to them what you expect from the motor and management system. Jon can be reached at his shop (781) 834-3932, Jerry Woods also uses MoTeC. Jerry is in Excellence each month (Bay Area). I will tell you this much about Jon. If you are able to reach him, he will not try to sell you something you do not need. But be prepared, with all your questions as he is very busy this time of the year.

Alan C.

Ian,

Time for that slice of humble pie.

Nice looking chart. I'm inpressed.

Alan

Konstantin

@ 86944turbo

hello
+ isnce you know milledge well can you tell me if he ever replys his emails?
i aksed some question 2 yeasr ago and he never got back to me. then I asked him to buy his cam 1-2 months ago and still nothing
I am not sure if this is a good customer suport.
I already told him that I am from Geramny and need his advise on which cam I need etc etc. Does he hate Germans, or do not like me or is it common for him to ignore emails?
The only company that was worst was Pourhouse. All other have been very< helpufull and I buy almost most of teh Parts from the USA through the internet.
is it not common for Milledge to make deals through the internet?

I would be glad to hear back from him as I am really interestd on a cam and a 3.+ L Turbo engine.

Konstantin

David Floyd

Konstantin,

I have had troubles with not getting replies from Millage in the past, so I just went with another tuner.

BC

Thanks Turbo.

I was not aware that Milledge was a producer of power for cars other than 944s and 911s? The 928 market is a very small one, and not many people care to subscribe to the customers. About two years ago, maybe three, I emailed Milledge about his intake for my now-gone 924S. He was prompt, but truthfull, in that the intake was something like 4k. When the car was worth 2k, I had issues with spending that much.
Well, I don't anymore, but now it will be on a 928.
I want to say this again, just in case anybody has an issue with my asking questions on the "wrong board": You are the ones that experiment. YOu have the info, heresay or direct.

Anyway, yes, MOTEC is on the top of my list, but for a V-8 motor that I want to have 550rwhp with whatever boost needed to get to that level, would TEC or DFI work just as well? The MoTec seems so cost prohibitive, when you can get most of the same controls with TEC or others, but without the logging. Does anybody know the resolution camprarison on these units? You know - the amount of cells you can change over 7000rpm. I think the more the better, with all the variables.

I think my choices are limited only in the way that I wish to have electronic boost control on the SC. This CAN be done on the intake with a BOV/boost limiting valve. Motec can be programmed to do that, and Maybe even TEC, but I am unsure on others. DTA maybe.

Thanks,
Brendan Campion

SamGrant951

Ive got one question/statement. Im all for stand alone, it makes alot of sense to me based on the fact of who knows what mod you might make next and then having the ability to dial it in very easily w/o a hassle of chip burning and having a better air/fuel than with a product like the ARC2.
But 1300? Does SDS allow you to retain the stock injectors? I thought you had to switch to 52/72# injectors. Arent those expensive..say $500-700?
If plug and play is a reality in the next month or two there is no doubt that I will eventually turn to SDS as Ive just heard too many positives to look at other options for the price.

aka 951

Anyway you do it you have to get the car on a dyno to do it right. Ever priced dyno time with an air/fuel hook up? Big$$$ if you're doing it alone. Injectors are available relatively inexpenisively through Marrin? Motorsports.

rage2

[quote]Originally posted by SamGrant951:
<strong>But 1300? Does SDS allow you to retain the stock injectors? I thought you had to switch to 52/72# injectors. Arent those expensive..say $500-700?</strong><hr></blockquote>

You can use your stock injectors with standalone. I had to switch to larger injectors (72#) because the stock injectors couldn't provide enough fuel for the air pushed by the bigger turbo.

[quote]Originally posted by aka 951:
<strong>Anyway you do it you have to get the car on a dyno to do it right. Ever priced dyno time with an air/fuel hook up? Big$$$ if you're doing it alone.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Or you can find a deserted highway, 2 people, road tune the car =). I just got hold of a wideband O2 sensor and meter, so I'll be doing more tuning on the road. I've been using a Huntley AFM for tuning thus far, and my fuel curve is far from perfect. The dyno we have in town doesn't work since I can't generate full boost on there.

86944turbo

Konstatin,

Jon does not dislike Germans at all. He has a great deal of respect for them. Believe it or not, I E-mailed Jon and mentioned your name. He could not recall speaking to you. I called Jon today from Willow Springs raceway (he told me he never lost a race at this track). Not as fast as Hockenheim, but I believe an F-1 would average over 230 kph there. He told me that I contact him 50 times more than any other customer. Neither good or bad. I just like the man. If I can assist you in getting your questions to and answered by Jon, I'll be more than happy to do so. Feel free to E-mail me and I'll bug him till he answers. Kurt

Konstantin

hello
Ok I will search for my old email That I sent him and I will resent it to you.
I would really like to know what he thinks about his cam on a 3.0 L Turbo engine. (or in a 3.2 L)

I aslo want to know what he thinks about stroking VS boring the 3.0 L engine or if it is safe for the engine to do both and go to a bigger than 3.2 L engine

Konstantin

86944turbo

Kostatin,

My 3.1L was built by Jon. It uses his cam. People who have gone for a ride in the car have told me they are astonished that the car is turbo'd. A lot of that is due to the barrel valve manifod. But, the cam is so smooth. On the dyno (old cam) developed over 400 ft./lbs of torque from 3500-6600. The curve is very flat. Interesting, peak torque on the 3.1 was 1000 rpm higher than the 2.5. It didn't start any later, sooner, in fact, it just peaked at a higher RPM.

Konstantin

hello
Do you have any pics of the car, engine etc?
any web site?
I am curius to see how it looks with the barrel conversion.

also any dyno sheet. old or new is ok.

Konstantin

John Anderson

The SFR 2.82 liter peaked at 520TQ at the wheels at 3700rpm...not bad for for a smaller displacement than that 3.1 liter huh :-) How much boost did you use?

BC

Kostatin,
My 3.1L was built by Jon. It uses his cam.

...Does he make OTHER cams too?


A lot of that is due to the barrel valve manifod.

...That barrel valve is very interesting. I choked at the price when I first saw it almost three years ago. I wonder if that could be made to fit a 968 head? (or 928S4 - similar heads)

Brendan