Vitesse Stage 3 - 446rwhp
04-22-2003, 12:10 AM
#181
Race Car
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by TonyG:
<strong>So that's it heh? No big recomendations on a turbo for my car?
Interesting!
Sure is quiet when it comes to specing out turbos!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">What's wrong with your turbo? If you were happy with it then it wouldn't matter what anyone else thinks. Aren't you happy with your turbo?
I think it's safe to assume that, since your car has the SFR conversion, you'd benefit from information given by another tuner but still buy through SFR. It's just business. Some folks are okay with that and others aren't. No big deal.
It's everyone's right to keep things to themselves. Nobody here is obligated to share EVERYTHING about their cars, business, etc. Both of you have already supplied the rest of us with great information. You haven't disclosed everything about your setup either and nobody is pestering you about it.
<strong>So that's it heh? No big recomendations on a turbo for my car?
Interesting!
Sure is quiet when it comes to specing out turbos!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">What's wrong with your turbo? If you were happy with it then it wouldn't matter what anyone else thinks. Aren't you happy with your turbo?
I think it's safe to assume that, since your car has the SFR conversion, you'd benefit from information given by another tuner but still buy through SFR. It's just business. Some folks are okay with that and others aren't. No big deal.
It's everyone's right to keep things to themselves. Nobody here is obligated to share EVERYTHING about their cars, business, etc. Both of you have already supplied the rest of us with great information. You haven't disclosed everything about your setup either and nobody is pestering you about it.
04-22-2003, 12:18 AM
#182
Rennlist Junkie Forever
Yo PorscheG96 (what is a G96 BTW?)
I've indicated that I was considering going smaller on the turbin housing and/or wheel etc... and at that time asked for recommendations.
But nobody offered them (enthusiasts and tuners alike, both of which were posting on this thread).
I guess I'll have to rely on other sources to "fine tune" my application (since I'm replacing the turbo (center section) anyway).
I was interested to see what people would recommend, but it was all talk and no recommend! :-)
I've indicated that I was considering going smaller on the turbin housing and/or wheel etc... and at that time asked for recommendations.
But nobody offered them (enthusiasts and tuners alike, both of which were posting on this thread).
I guess I'll have to rely on other sources to "fine tune" my application (since I'm replacing the turbo (center section) anyway).
I was interested to see what people would recommend, but it was all talk and no recommend! :-)
04-22-2003, 12:47 AM
#183
Banned
posted by tony: No big recomendations on a turbo for my car?
I made one on page 10. (over looked)
It might possibly be the best turbo for a 2.5.
It pumps about the same air flow as a 60-1 but is more efficient in the lower rpm's and at lower boost pressure. It's a F1 design that was handed down since they have better stuff now.
I just might be the first to try one out.
I made one on page 10. (over looked)
It might possibly be the best turbo for a 2.5.
It pumps about the same air flow as a 60-1 but is more efficient in the lower rpm's and at lower boost pressure. It's a F1 design that was handed down since they have better stuff now.
I just might be the first to try one out.
04-22-2003, 01:00 AM
#184
Rennlist Junkie Forever
jimbo1111
The recommendation on the Garretts ain't bad.
My previous turbo was a Turbonetics KKK replica turbine side with their stage 5 turbine and the same 60-1HiFi compressor.
I can't compare it directly to what I have now since the head/cam/valvetrain/header/crossover pipe all have been changed at the time of the turbo swap.
I really like the top end of the current config. And even though it's a track/street car, the turbo is "dead" down low.
Not a big deal for the track since the rpms never get that low, but on the street it kinda sucks unless you keep it up on the rpms.
It's really a kind of on/off scenario right now. I could easily live with it. All I have to do is to downshift, then there's a long wide powerband available. But unless you down shift, you're not going anywhere.
This is the reason why I'm looking to "tweak" the current config. It's a little too "race" for the street.
I think the a/r on the hot side has got to come down a notch or two though.
And... I have documented your recommendations. I was looking to get all the recommendations I could get, then go from there.
So don't think I "passed over yours". I didn't.
Thank for your input.
The recommendation on the Garretts ain't bad.
My previous turbo was a Turbonetics KKK replica turbine side with their stage 5 turbine and the same 60-1HiFi compressor.
I can't compare it directly to what I have now since the head/cam/valvetrain/header/crossover pipe all have been changed at the time of the turbo swap.
I really like the top end of the current config. And even though it's a track/street car, the turbo is "dead" down low.
Not a big deal for the track since the rpms never get that low, but on the street it kinda sucks unless you keep it up on the rpms.
It's really a kind of on/off scenario right now. I could easily live with it. All I have to do is to downshift, then there's a long wide powerband available. But unless you down shift, you're not going anywhere.
This is the reason why I'm looking to "tweak" the current config. It's a little too "race" for the street.
I think the a/r on the hot side has got to come down a notch or two though.
And... I have documented your recommendations. I was looking to get all the recommendations I could get, then go from there.
So don't think I "passed over yours". I didn't.
Thank for your input.
04-22-2003, 04:22 AM
#185
Fast 951,
If you think I'm trying to bust your chops, well I am for thechnical reasons,not personally. I am suer you are a good guy. But you keep say things that are just not correct.
Your comment about Compressor maps not been ideas for every day is just so far from true. MAP is the only way to tell where you are on the Comp. map? I know that is not correct. If you know yur pressure ratio, you can be anywhere across te map to the right. It all depaend on te speed of the impeelor. That is dicated by the backpressure present. Take look at a map. The efficency islands can be upward, downward or t the right of the pressure axis. Turbo's are mapped by the manufacturer and with impeelor speed noted we acn now cahange te backpressure and always know the amount of air been generated. You could be way off te most efficient part of the map and not know it. Different turbine trims produce different amounts of backpressure for a given impellor speed, based on the test setup. Your exhaust system may generate more backpressure as well. You just don't know unless you measure these parameters. How then do you know if you need to change the turbine wheel trim, the Comp wheel size, trim, or just cahnge the A/R numbers. Its all guess work. Measuring impeelor speed is not hard. Generally a small iron pin is inserted int the impeelor sahft and the sahft is rebalanced. he a simple reluctor pickup is installed into the bearing housing. This signal can be measured on many different common electronic systems. The correct way is the pressure on the front side of the compressor, the exhaust pressure and the impellor speed. Come to think of it, I think Link Electronics have a system for this. Now you can change all the turbo parts you like and understand what you are doing. If you don't have a map, this information can still be useful. Having a map is really the only way to know the amount of air been generated at a given pressure and speed.
I hope you see my point here. To give advice without really knowing what is the way to go, is just continuing the same old pattern "buy and try."
If you think I'm trying to bust your chops, well I am for thechnical reasons,not personally. I am suer you are a good guy. But you keep say things that are just not correct.
Your comment about Compressor maps not been ideas for every day is just so far from true. MAP is the only way to tell where you are on the Comp. map? I know that is not correct. If you know yur pressure ratio, you can be anywhere across te map to the right. It all depaend on te speed of the impeelor. That is dicated by the backpressure present. Take look at a map. The efficency islands can be upward, downward or t the right of the pressure axis. Turbo's are mapped by the manufacturer and with impeelor speed noted we acn now cahange te backpressure and always know the amount of air been generated. You could be way off te most efficient part of the map and not know it. Different turbine trims produce different amounts of backpressure for a given impellor speed, based on the test setup. Your exhaust system may generate more backpressure as well. You just don't know unless you measure these parameters. How then do you know if you need to change the turbine wheel trim, the Comp wheel size, trim, or just cahnge the A/R numbers. Its all guess work. Measuring impeelor speed is not hard. Generally a small iron pin is inserted int the impeelor sahft and the sahft is rebalanced. he a simple reluctor pickup is installed into the bearing housing. This signal can be measured on many different common electronic systems. The correct way is the pressure on the front side of the compressor, the exhaust pressure and the impellor speed. Come to think of it, I think Link Electronics have a system for this. Now you can change all the turbo parts you like and understand what you are doing. If you don't have a map, this information can still be useful. Having a map is really the only way to know the amount of air been generated at a given pressure and speed.
I hope you see my point here. To give advice without really knowing what is the way to go, is just continuing the same old pattern "buy and try."
04-22-2003, 04:30 AM
#186
86944turbo,
You have a camshaft which I expect to be one of the best ever made for the 944T. I know my friends ability, knowledge and experience. He is undoudtably one of the most respected and thought of camshaft designers. A look at who he designs for gives an idea of the repest he commands. Your right, he will remain nameless out of repect for Milledge and all the others.
It sounds like you have the results of a well engineered piece. Whats amasing is that well engineered cams don't cost anymore than alot of the other less engineered ones do.
Great to know someone else out there has experienced the difference. It is quite amasing isn't it.
You have a camshaft which I expect to be one of the best ever made for the 944T. I know my friends ability, knowledge and experience. He is undoudtably one of the most respected and thought of camshaft designers. A look at who he designs for gives an idea of the repest he commands. Your right, he will remain nameless out of repect for Milledge and all the others.
It sounds like you have the results of a well engineered piece. Whats amasing is that well engineered cams don't cost anymore than alot of the other less engineered ones do.
Great to know someone else out there has experienced the difference. It is quite amasing isn't it.
04-22-2003, 05:55 AM
#188
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Hello,
Somebody accurately pointed out that I made no mention of the intercooler in my car. Due to my desire to keep a "stock" appearance, the intercooler is probably too small. It was fabricated from two stock 951 units. Rows were removed from one and attached to the other. It sounds like FAST951 does something similar. Non-esential sheetmetal required removal for the fit. It is approx. 50% larger than stock. The top of the I/C touches the nose panel. With the 3.1L motor, on 100f ambient days, I was seeing 60C from the MoTeC dumps. This is deep into 6th gear, during repeated runs. In the tire well rests an aluminum tank that holds 3+ GA. I use distilled water, as I was assured that better heat disapating liquids would reak havoc on the paint. The pump is a windshield spray pump. It is inexpensive. The current bar sprays water accross the intake. Jon advises to spray at the passenger side where the Delta-T is the greatest. I have a defeat switch in the car as heat soak sets it off aound town. When the temps. rise above 39c it will commence spraying. I realize that it sounds somewhat like a band-aid fix. It does work. There is a space limitaion for the I/C and I believe both Mitsubishi and Subaru employ something similar. It is not a big project. Dropped temps. 15-20c. Not only safer, but more power, too. I gotta believe there is a better fix. Any suggestions? The installation requires a filter before the water pump. Check filter and replace often. Do not let reservoir run dry with this pump, as they are water cooled. I studied a Nitrous spray bar set-up at a NOPI meet. But, I do not need the cooling very often. Water is cheaper and easier to find. Some of the nitrous may find it's way into my intake, which would lean out the motor. None of the water finds it away into the motor. By the way, as long as I mentioned nitrous, 18 mos. back I studied the possibility of adding a 100 h/p shot. Still would like to do it. I just do not want the nitrous R&D on my motor. Timing, boost, throttle position, yada, yada. It's a "Zero sum game". Nose panel is vented and a vented bra is being made.
Somebody accurately pointed out that I made no mention of the intercooler in my car. Due to my desire to keep a "stock" appearance, the intercooler is probably too small. It was fabricated from two stock 951 units. Rows were removed from one and attached to the other. It sounds like FAST951 does something similar. Non-esential sheetmetal required removal for the fit. It is approx. 50% larger than stock. The top of the I/C touches the nose panel. With the 3.1L motor, on 100f ambient days, I was seeing 60C from the MoTeC dumps. This is deep into 6th gear, during repeated runs. In the tire well rests an aluminum tank that holds 3+ GA. I use distilled water, as I was assured that better heat disapating liquids would reak havoc on the paint. The pump is a windshield spray pump. It is inexpensive. The current bar sprays water accross the intake. Jon advises to spray at the passenger side where the Delta-T is the greatest. I have a defeat switch in the car as heat soak sets it off aound town. When the temps. rise above 39c it will commence spraying. I realize that it sounds somewhat like a band-aid fix. It does work. There is a space limitaion for the I/C and I believe both Mitsubishi and Subaru employ something similar. It is not a big project. Dropped temps. 15-20c. Not only safer, but more power, too. I gotta believe there is a better fix. Any suggestions? The installation requires a filter before the water pump. Check filter and replace often. Do not let reservoir run dry with this pump, as they are water cooled. I studied a Nitrous spray bar set-up at a NOPI meet. But, I do not need the cooling very often. Water is cheaper and easier to find. Some of the nitrous may find it's way into my intake, which would lean out the motor. None of the water finds it away into the motor. By the way, as long as I mentioned nitrous, 18 mos. back I studied the possibility of adding a 100 h/p shot. Still would like to do it. I just do not want the nitrous R&D on my motor. Timing, boost, throttle position, yada, yada. It's a "Zero sum game". Nose panel is vented and a vented bra is being made.
04-22-2003, 06:30 AM
#189
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I bothered Tony Garcia (did not know he lived so close to me) on Easter Sunday. He doesn't know me from Adam and he invites me into his home on a Holiday. He is far more mechanically inclined than I'll ever be. In short, the pleasure was all mine. He is a wonderful person and I regret not letting him drive my car. It was getting late. Either at my house or Willow Springs (awesome track) I'll make that up to him. Somebody posted that they "were living the dream". Tony IS living the dream. He just doesn't flaunt it. Although he every reason to do so.
m42racer,
I realize what you're trying do do for us 951 owners and I believe your intentions to be sound. You appear to have knowledge that can lead to better engineered and better performing cars, if someone doesn't shoot you first. You're a no BS type of person that wants to cut through the social side of these discussions and get some results. That's good. I sense that you would take some role of leadership in this process. I suspect that this is born from good intentions. Then lead. With results, you'll have followers. With CONSTANT citicism, you will not.
m42racer,
I realize what you're trying do do for us 951 owners and I believe your intentions to be sound. You appear to have knowledge that can lead to better engineered and better performing cars, if someone doesn't shoot you first. You're a no BS type of person that wants to cut through the social side of these discussions and get some results. That's good. I sense that you would take some role of leadership in this process. I suspect that this is born from good intentions. Then lead. With results, you'll have followers. With CONSTANT citicism, you will not.
04-22-2003, 10:22 AM
#190
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m42racer,
I don't take the discussions personal, so we are on the same page here.
You keep trying to shoot down my knowledge and you twist things around. I know how to read a turbo MAP, I know how to size a turbo. Remember, I'm not the one who is having the problems with a turbo delivering the goods.
A turbo MAP is 100% accurate under ideal conditions. An engine well never be under 100% ideal conditions. The MAP is still important, and a good indication as to how the turbo will perform in an application. Also, please note that I'm the one who said that the turbine section plays a big role in turbo design. Well guess what, turbine affects backpressure and spool time.
I'm starting to form the opinion, that unless information is presented in a way that you want or understand, you assume is not valid.
Also, you have no idea on what my credentials are. Trial and error is not in my book. Research, development and testing sure is.
All in all, it appears that you agree with me, that MAPS are a very important part of picking a turbo. But there are other variables as well.
<img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />
I don't take the discussions personal, so we are on the same page here.
You keep trying to shoot down my knowledge and you twist things around. I know how to read a turbo MAP, I know how to size a turbo. Remember, I'm not the one who is having the problems with a turbo delivering the goods.
A turbo MAP is 100% accurate under ideal conditions. An engine well never be under 100% ideal conditions. The MAP is still important, and a good indication as to how the turbo will perform in an application. Also, please note that I'm the one who said that the turbine section plays a big role in turbo design. Well guess what, turbine affects backpressure and spool time.
I'm starting to form the opinion, that unless information is presented in a way that you want or understand, you assume is not valid.
Also, you have no idea on what my credentials are. Trial and error is not in my book. Research, development and testing sure is.
All in all, it appears that you agree with me, that MAPS are a very important part of picking a turbo. But there are other variables as well.
<img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />
04-22-2003, 10:37 AM
#191
Rennlist Member
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by m42racer:
<strong>Fast 951,
If you think I'm trying to bust your chops, well I am for technical reasons, not personally. I am sure you are a good guy. But you keep say things that are just not correct...
...I hope you see my point here. To give advice without really knowing what is the way to go, is just continuing the same old pattern "buy and try."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">m42racer,
Please don't take offense to this question, but do you have a lot of practical experience with turbos. Actually putting different ones on a car, tuning and then documenting the difference?
I am a mechanical engineer with a manufacturing company (not related to cars) and have been on the R&D/design side of things as well as the field engineering side of things, and one of my biggest pet peeves are engineers who quote stand behind theoretical information without using experimental/practical data. I don't know how many times I have had to argue with another engineer while I was out in the field troubleshooting a piece of equipment and the guy on the phone is telling me "its impossible that the equipment is doing that, my based on xxx calculations it has to work." We call those boys the Ivory Tower bunch. They do LaPlace Transforms in their sleep but don't know which end of a screwdriver to use.
I guess my point in all of this is don't discount practical experimental design. While sound engineering principles should be employed with the design of a system and the theoretical data (compressor maps, etc.) need to be used they are not the be all end all. I guarantee that a supplier who bases their product solely on theoretical data will have an inferior product to a tuner who uses theoretical information as a starting point and then performs lots of iterative tests (fancy engineer speak for trial and error). The problem with data such as compressor maps is that they are usually based on ideal conditions, and do not take into effect all the variables of a given system, purely because its impossible - the variations are unlimited. The turbo is definitely part of a larger system and everything before and after the turbo play a big part in how the turbo matches its curve. I deal with large water pumps - 1000's of gallons per minute - and have first hand how seemingly insignificant plumbing changes can have a large effect on the pump and how it matches its curve.
So I guess my point in all of this long winded rambling is that you need to ease up on the "buy and try" rhetoric. While there definitely are tuners who live by that mantra, they don't all do that. Even if they don't do 6 months of mathematical modeling before they release their product doesn't mean that they haven't put any engineering work into it.
Thanks for letting me rant a bit and sorry for the long post. And please don't take offense m42racer, this post is not meant to be a flame, just a little constructive criticism based on practical experience. Oh and 86944 - your statement of "You appear to have knowledge that can lead to better engineered and better performing cars, if someone doesn't shoot you first." - funny as hell.
<strong>Fast 951,
If you think I'm trying to bust your chops, well I am for technical reasons, not personally. I am sure you are a good guy. But you keep say things that are just not correct...
...I hope you see my point here. To give advice without really knowing what is the way to go, is just continuing the same old pattern "buy and try."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">m42racer,
Please don't take offense to this question, but do you have a lot of practical experience with turbos. Actually putting different ones on a car, tuning and then documenting the difference?
I am a mechanical engineer with a manufacturing company (not related to cars) and have been on the R&D/design side of things as well as the field engineering side of things, and one of my biggest pet peeves are engineers who quote stand behind theoretical information without using experimental/practical data. I don't know how many times I have had to argue with another engineer while I was out in the field troubleshooting a piece of equipment and the guy on the phone is telling me "its impossible that the equipment is doing that, my based on xxx calculations it has to work." We call those boys the Ivory Tower bunch. They do LaPlace Transforms in their sleep but don't know which end of a screwdriver to use.
I guess my point in all of this is don't discount practical experimental design. While sound engineering principles should be employed with the design of a system and the theoretical data (compressor maps, etc.) need to be used they are not the be all end all. I guarantee that a supplier who bases their product solely on theoretical data will have an inferior product to a tuner who uses theoretical information as a starting point and then performs lots of iterative tests (fancy engineer speak for trial and error). The problem with data such as compressor maps is that they are usually based on ideal conditions, and do not take into effect all the variables of a given system, purely because its impossible - the variations are unlimited. The turbo is definitely part of a larger system and everything before and after the turbo play a big part in how the turbo matches its curve. I deal with large water pumps - 1000's of gallons per minute - and have first hand how seemingly insignificant plumbing changes can have a large effect on the pump and how it matches its curve.
So I guess my point in all of this long winded rambling is that you need to ease up on the "buy and try" rhetoric. While there definitely are tuners who live by that mantra, they don't all do that. Even if they don't do 6 months of mathematical modeling before they release their product doesn't mean that they haven't put any engineering work into it.
Thanks for letting me rant a bit and sorry for the long post. And please don't take offense m42racer, this post is not meant to be a flame, just a little constructive criticism based on practical experience. Oh and 86944 - your statement of "You appear to have knowledge that can lead to better engineered and better performing cars, if someone doesn't shoot you first." - funny as hell.
04-22-2003, 10:50 AM
#192
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TonyG,
In response to your request for a turbo recommendation...
First you come to this thread, and make the comment that my dyno run is a "Glory Run". I post a low boost run so you can compare it to your findings.
I request you do a dyno run at high boost so I can compare it to mine, you decline as you might be risking an engine. Well Tony, with all of the money you spent on the parts in your engine, if you are concerned that the engine will not hold together. Then something is really wrong with this picture.
I ask you about the header you are using, and if you have any before and after HP/TQ numbers. You ignore my question. I liked the header, and was wondering who made it as I have a custmer looking to replace the broken stock headers.. I already found out that SFR makes it, nice work Tim.
I take the time to do some calculations and I came up with the conclusion that the turbo you are using is not the best turbo for your application.
On a different thread, you post that your setup is actually an SFR kit.
Now things get a bit tricky! I'll explain why.
Why would I, as a representative of "Vitesse", want to help someone that spent his money elsewhere? Why, as a tuner, would I want to undermine the ability of the tuners you have worked with? You spent your money with them, at least give them a chance to prove to you that your turbo is fine, or let them make the changes needed so you will be happy. This is your tuners project, there is no way I would get involved. Just out of respect to the people you are working with.
The turbo is just one variable you are dealing with. Tuning (proper fuel and timing) is something you are yet to mention.
Not so long ago, I did an experiment on a 951 equipped with a good bit of bolton parts from tuner Z (I already used X ). I had the 951 owner reset all his tuning devices to 0, I installed my chips in his car. Under the same conditions, boost and dyno I picked him another 20ft-lb at the wheel. Why is that? I would also like to add, and no this is not an excuse, the way I have my chips tuned are not a 100% match to his setup, due to lack of time we stopped there. Hopefully, in the near future, I'll get the ability to fine tune things to his car. Posting the results will be up to him.
Tony, it's not that I do not want to or unable to recommend a turbo for your setup. I just think it's inappropriate on my part to do so.
Good luck, and sorry for the lengthy message.
<img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />
In response to your request for a turbo recommendation...
First you come to this thread, and make the comment that my dyno run is a "Glory Run". I post a low boost run so you can compare it to your findings.
I request you do a dyno run at high boost so I can compare it to mine, you decline as you might be risking an engine. Well Tony, with all of the money you spent on the parts in your engine, if you are concerned that the engine will not hold together. Then something is really wrong with this picture.
I ask you about the header you are using, and if you have any before and after HP/TQ numbers. You ignore my question. I liked the header, and was wondering who made it as I have a custmer looking to replace the broken stock headers.. I already found out that SFR makes it, nice work Tim.
I take the time to do some calculations and I came up with the conclusion that the turbo you are using is not the best turbo for your application.
On a different thread, you post that your setup is actually an SFR kit.
Now things get a bit tricky! I'll explain why.
Why would I, as a representative of "Vitesse", want to help someone that spent his money elsewhere? Why, as a tuner, would I want to undermine the ability of the tuners you have worked with? You spent your money with them, at least give them a chance to prove to you that your turbo is fine, or let them make the changes needed so you will be happy. This is your tuners project, there is no way I would get involved. Just out of respect to the people you are working with.
The turbo is just one variable you are dealing with. Tuning (proper fuel and timing) is something you are yet to mention.
Not so long ago, I did an experiment on a 951 equipped with a good bit of bolton parts from tuner Z (I already used X
). I had the 951 owner reset all his tuning devices to 0, I installed my chips in his car. Under the same conditions, boost and dyno I picked him another 20ft-lb at the wheel. Why is that? I would also like to add, and no this is not an excuse, the way I have my chips tuned are not a 100% match to his setup, due to lack of time we stopped there. Hopefully, in the near future, I'll get the ability to fine tune things to his car. Posting the results will be up to him.Tony, it's not that I do not want to or unable to recommend a turbo for your setup. I just think it's inappropriate on my part to do so.
Good luck, and sorry for the lengthy message.
<img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />
04-22-2003, 11:03 AM
#193
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Skip,
Well said, you are able to get the point across much better than I can.
May I use part of your post on my Website? (Yes I will have a website. <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" /> )
In prior life, when I owned a consulting firm, I had to deal with guys with PHDs from the best Universities in the country. Some of them, could not find their way to the Bathroom unless it involved a formula. Others looked outside the box, and were a pleasure to work with.
Well said, you are able to get the point across much better than I can.
May I use part of your post on my Website? (Yes I will have a website. <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" /> )
In prior life, when I owned a consulting firm, I had to deal with guys with PHDs from the best Universities in the country. Some of them, could not find their way to the Bathroom unless it involved a formula. Others looked outside the box, and were a pleasure to work with.
04-22-2003, 11:14 AM
#194
Rennlist Member
No problem John - quote away. I've gone from a project engineer to national sales manager in my career and have seen it from all sides. We manufacture municipal water treatment equipment and sell to consulting engineering firms that are hired by municipalities. Those guys are the ultimate in lots of theory and zero practical experience. The phd's are the worst. To become a phd you have to learn more and more about less and less until you know everything about nothing ;')
04-22-2003, 11:18 AM
#195
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TonyG,
You mentioned that you are not happy with the low end performance. I guess torque (or lack of it) is what you were referring to.
I would like to share this dyno graph that displays torque curve on the Stage 3 kit. Please keep in mind that stage 3 is designed for track use, where the target RPM is 3500-6400rpm.
Hope this helps you in your comparison in order to come up with a turbo that you will be happier with.
Enjoy! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/DynoS3Torque.gif" alt=" - " />
You mentioned that you are not happy with the low end performance. I guess torque (or lack of it) is what you were referring to.
I would like to share this dyno graph that displays torque curve on the Stage 3 kit. Please keep in mind that stage 3 is designed for track use, where the target RPM is 3500-6400rpm.
Hope this helps you in your comparison in order to come up with a turbo that you will be happier with.
Enjoy! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/DynoS3Torque.gif" alt=" - " />