blown 944

From what I have read I don't believe that to be true. I think it has to do with the separate modifier (x table or something like that) between the part throttle timing maps and the wot maps. From my understanding it is not full 3d.

I'll let the experts fill in the blanks. I'm just going off of what have read on here. I have seen people post that they needed a re-tune when changing turbos.

black944 turbo

Refresh, what was the difference in spool time and partial or off boost throttle response between the a and M?

The upgrade mentioned is just a pipe dream. I will more than likely never upgrade turbos.

zerMATT951

It is my understanding that you only have this flexibility of you also purchase the v-flex option (additional cost) to go with your MAF and chips.

fast951

With the V-MAF+, which is the standard and only MAF kit we now offer, you are 100% correct.

fast951

Since you continue to represent yourself as a knowledge source on the software subject, and constantly commenting on the Vitesse software. Maybe you can clarify a few things for me.

How do you know how we structured the Vitesse code? There are 2 people in the world that should know how the Vitesse code is structured. Interesting you comment on this!!! Unless someone had access to the Vitesse software or unless it was hacked, how would anyone know and how would you know how the code was structured and how it operated?

Assuming your statement above is correct (and I'm not saying it is), please explain why you think a static 3D table is better than a dynamic table (as in 2D + a modifiers)? Please provide actual data to back it up! Feel free to start a new thread if you wish.

FYI - The factory original software in essence was multi-dimensional and in some cases higher than 3D!

fast951

You are correct, in the old days the V-FLEX option was needed.However many things changed since.
For some time now, the V-FLEX option was discontinued. The V-FLEX, along with additional new features are bundled together and offered as the standard MAF (called V-MAF+) for no additional cost.

m73m95

blown 944

I don't "know" how your code is structured. In regards to using the WOT map and part throttle map and a modifier; It has been written on this forum, that is what I recollect. In one of the many tuning threads over the years. If things have changed or this was incorrect then why not just say so?

I never said one was better than the other. That is certainly for you genious types to debate. I had just read a few times that a new tune was required when changing turbos. If that has also changed .. well I don't really stay up to date on your products and thanks for the correction.

So do you need to do a new chip if a person needs to change from say a super 75 ptrim turbo to a say a gt2871? I am truly asking for my own knowledge.
As to why I personally feel it is better to have a static 3d table for timing or fuel:

I'd prefer to be able to target a specific cel for vac/pressure /rpm/tps than to have to use a go between to match say a 40 degree/low IDC, part throttle map... and a 16 deg/high IDC WOTmap to achieve something in between. This certainly can happen at low rpms and load levels when the throttle is applied quickly. It was one of the initial problems wit a 2d setup IMO and why the 951 was so laggy at times.

I don't have all the knowledge in the world and would certainly love to be educated. However, from what I have gathered from your posts you are not a fan of a free education of such tuning methods. Rather you would prefer to make statements such as "being copied" or "hacked" or other insinuations. As I know first hand this is not the case. I personally don't have the brain power to disect any code and I know that no-one I know has hacked anything of yours.

I'll leave all my other thoughts to myself in regard to your products other than to say you and TT have provided a great service to this community over the years and everyone should be happy about that.

Like I have said before, I'm just glad there is an affordable alternatative and it would be nice sometime if there could be a comparison between the differences directly, rather than these type of posts.

Maybe that would be a good idea?? That way mis-information would be dispelled all at once regarding all products out there.

Just for the record..I am in no way a part of any tuning software company and my opinions are just that. Correct me if I'm wrong, instead of insinuating that I'm hacking anything. It would actually be quite funny to watch me try to disect code..lol...

fast951

Since you do not "know" how the code is structured, then why do you continue to make statements about the Vitesse software which you do not "know"? Such statements can be misleading, and I don't have the time nor the desire to keep correcting.

You did not say it flat out, but for the obvious reason, you insinuate!

I already answered this a few posts back. However I would add, that there is more to ignition timing than just boost. Turbo efficiency, and Intake Air Temps and engine temps are very important. For the street you get away with almost anything, for the race track, when you run flat out for a extended period of time (30min to hours), things are totally different.


Ignition based on actual boost is important, this is why I came up with the V-FLEX (which for the first time on a 951, ignition was based on boost). This was back in 2007, not something new. I'm glad you and others see its value. As far as a 3D vs 2D + Multiplier, Based on data gathered with the Motronic Monitor (TPS, RPM, LOAD, BOOST), we chose the way we did things. This is based on actual data. For the record, even the stock PT table is not "just 2D" there are many other factors making it a virtual multi-dimension.. The 2D or 3D is just for static storage, how the data is used is what is important.



I'm not sure I know your definition of "Free Education". Also, I'm not aware of any business who publishes private/confidential data..
If you re-read my post, I did not insinuate a thing. I made a statement, that unless someone "knows" our software he/she cannot comment on how it is structured or how it operates. We never released our software, so beside TT and I no one would have access to it unless it was hacked. And I'm not saying it was or was not as I do not know.

You already proved my point that you do not know the code, as you replied by saying that "you do not know" the software. And I simply corrected the misleading information. Which is beneficial to everyone interested in this matter.


Thank you.


Misinformation should be corrected, which is why I replied to your original post.
Alternatives are good. Selecting a product should be made based on actual facts. Feel free to review our website, the V-MAF+ page was updated no too long ago. You can make a chart with the features we offer and compare it to whatever other product you like. The price is also listed on the web-site if you care. A few things have not been added, such as full support to the MoMonitor (there is a thread on it from the past few weeks).
If this matter is really important to you, start a new thread. I'll be glad to address it as time permits.



I never said that "you are a part of a tuning software company". However, based on your posts, I concluded (as well as others) that your friendship influence your posts. So in essence, your posts are not neutral and are geared a certain way.

I don't care who you promote, however I do have a issue when you make incorrect statements about Vitesse products. I hope you see my point.

I'm off to enjoy my vacation. Back to scheduled programming!

Scott H

John, have you considered lowering the price of the Stage kits now that the V-Flex has been incorporated into the those kits? Doing the math on the prices it's almost like spending $2000+ on a turbo. I realize you do some trick stuff to them, but $2000 is a bit much for a turbo that I only know a relative power level it will give instead of which components are actually in the turbo to give those results. I considered going with your 3R until I did the math. Not looking to bash you or anything, I know you've got to make money somewhere to keep the lights on, just giving you some constructive feedback so that you might be able to better serve the community. Hope you're enjoying your vacation. I was going to send this as a PM but you have them turned off.

zerMATT951

Ok, so back to the topic at hand...

I got the WB hooked up this morning and did a couple of runs to play with it. My AFR at WOT at 17 psi in 2nd and 3rd are showing 10. I'm running the FPR at 3 bar. Should I back off the pressure a bit to bring that 10 closer to 11.5-12? Sorry, no logging yet.

URG8RB8

I just installed my M-Tune last night and the remainder this morning. I have a couple questions that maybe someone can answer. I can't get through to Josh which is unusal, so coming here. My DME selection plug was jumped originally from the factory, see pic below. Josh provides this jumper in the kit, which from what I understood was to select E85 mode. Now I am a little perplexed as to whether or not to leave it installed or remove it. I was actually surprised to see it installed, because if you have one, why would you need to supply one in the kit?

Also, just in case you have an '89, Pin 28 on the DME is Brown in color and Pin 9 is Blue and Green.

Finally, for those that said this can be done in less than an hour, I call the BS card! Especially, if you are changing injectors and plan on doing a nice job routing the wires for the MAP sensor. I have the Nissan alternator and it is still a tight fit, I imagine with the Bosch in there, it is very tight. By the way this has nothing to do with the product or Josh, just keeping it real.

zerMATT951

I asked about the jumper too - no response, and no instructions. Maybe that's why my AFR is 10???

zerMATT951

Now that I've got the WB hooked up, a quick test appears to confirm that with the jumper INSTALLED, the M-Tune is using the E85 fuel map. I think I've been running the E85 map all along.

I had been dropping my FPR to try to reduce the black smoke, had it all the way down to 32 psi (2.2 bar?) and was still getting an AFR of 10. Pulled the jumper, set the FPR at 43.5 psi and went for a spin... AFR is now at 11.3-11.6 at WOT in 3rd. Also had to back off the MBC a bit as I was hitting boost cut very quickly. Got it back down to 16-17 for more monitoring now.

URG8RB8

Well, happy to see I did it right by removing jumper, but my idle is very high @ 1200. How is yours? Yes, have to agree about no instructions. I need to order WBO2. Which one did you get?