TurboTim

Tom,


John never stuck a battery hold down in his car. If he said he was going to make you one.... he will but it will take some time. Custom stuff always takes longer then most people would like it to.

Perry 951

I am running the Deltagate and find it just perfect for my application. If you have access to a MIG or TIG, and can weld with it, the $225 price tag and beefy design make it a good alternative.

I have heard that some people have had problems with sticky valves and boost spikes from it, but I personally have never seen it. A good friend ran one on a 400hp+ Supra for years with no problems, another on a T04 Talon, and now on mine.

If I was going for bolt on, Lindsey would get my cash.

Tom Pultz

[quote]Originally posted by TurboTim:
<strong>Tom,


John never stuck a battery hold down in his car. If he said he was going to make you one.... he will but it will take some time. Custom stuff always takes longer then most people would like it to.</strong><hr></blockquote>Well, if he never made one, it means he lied about it because he told me he finished it and it was awesome and he didn't want to let it go. Either way he comes off looking like an a$$. I guess I'll just engineer it myself. Thanks for clearing this up. The truth usually comes out in the end.

danny951

Anyone know the differences between the SFR and LR stock dual port conversion wastegates? besides the SFR one being half the price of the Lindsey? Do they have the same 'mm' size?

Luke, you noticed a HUGE difference? is that because of putting on more boost or just the design itself?

-late

danny951

I think I just found a great deal on a Tial 35mm wastegate. ($206 shipped) and want to know if this is pretty much bolt on, and if I'll have to get something changed in my computer or anything to take full advantage of it. Also, it has adjustable spring pressures up to 1.1 bar. If I get this Wastegate, should I not use a Boost Enhancer with it?


Another question I have is, this.. Why should I worry about getting a better than stock wastegate, when I can use a boost enhancer or even any boost controller to act as the "spring" and keep the air from slipping out, then when my boost point is reached, let it go to the wastegate and then take over? I don't see how one is better than the other, good wastegate vs. MBC/EBC

any help in this area will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

dannyzumwalt@mac.com

Luke

[quote]Originally posted by danny951:
<strong>Luke, you noticed a HUGE difference? is that because of putting on more boost or just the design itself?

-late</strong><hr></blockquote>

actually, less boost. I am not taking about a power differnce. It's more in the delivery. Boost hits sharply and I see full boost much sooner. And despite the fact that people dont beleive me, I could hold 15lbs to redline (k26/6) , no problem.

TurboTim

Hey Tom,


I dont know if he made you one or not. There is no invoice for you. There is no deposit. There is nothing from you on our computer or anything else that I am aware of. Since there is no record of purchase from you it is not an SFR deal.It is a John deal. I think it would be best if you talked to John about it before you accuse him of making himself look like an *** because I have no clue what kind of dealings he had with you. Maybe he did make you one. Maybe he didnt. He is not here for me to ask and I wont be able to find out anything till Monday morning.He went fishing with his dad this weekend. All I know is that he didnt put a battery hold-down on his car(where did you come up with that anyways).All I know is that he can make you one if he didnt already.He has his personal deals and I have mine and typically we have no clue what each others personal dealings are.The only things that we know for sure are what has to be done for SFR.I was just responding to your *** post because he is not aware of being called an *** since he is on a boat down in Mexico.

Maybe he is pissed about the things that were recently brought up in your testomonial(I heard what you had to say with my own ears about us) for Huntley Racing's court case(which John ended up winning anyways)in front of a superior court judge. Maybe this has something to do with it? Afterall, you wrote some testimony for our competitions case against John and then you expect John to make you something cool for your car? Now you are getting all pissy and calling him an *** on a public forum and he is not even available to defend himself till Monday! Good grief man! You can certainly call the shop on Monday when he gets back.Take care.


Tim
86 951
<a href="http://www.speedforceracing.com" target="_blank">http://www.speedforceracing.com</a>

Luke

Wow, 2 signatures

Mike B

Good questions Danny...I was wondering the exact same things...

Mark-87-951

I agree - good questions Danny. Im sure someone here will give us a very good answer.

Mark

Tom Pultz

[quote]Originally posted by TurboTim:
There is nothing from you on our computer or anything else that I am aware of. Since there is no record of purchase from you it is not an SFR deal.It is a John deal.<hr></blockquote>Oh really? John works for SFR. John posts messages to the forums and to the email lists on behalf of SFR. I wrote to John about making the battery hold down. In my mind, that was a request with SFR, not John. His emails contain a link to SFR. If it was a "John deal" he should have removed that link and said it was between him and me. He didn't.

[quote]I think it would be best if you talked to John about it before you accuse him of making himself look like an *** because I have no clue what kind of dealings he had with you.<hr></blockquote>You have one thing correct... you have no clue. I don't intend to talk to John (or you) again, nor do I intend to respond further to any topic that John or you post in. If he wants to write me, fine, but it's going in the bit bucket.
[quote]All I know is that he didnt put a battery hold-down on his car(where did you come up with that anyways).<hr></blockquote>From an email he sent me! He said, "It looks awsome Tom, Its fitted on my optima now in the car...I don't want to let it go"
[quote]Maybe he is pissed about the things that were recently brought up in your testomonial(I heard what you had to say with my own ears about us) for Huntley Racing's court case<hr></blockquote>I certainly don't know what you've been smokin' but you must have me confused with someone else. I certainly did not write any "testimonial" about any court case involving John and HR. I have no idea what you are talking about. I've never met either one. [quote]Afterall, you wrote some testimony for our competitions case against John and then you expect John to make you something cool for your car?<hr></blockquote>Get real. I don't know diddly squat about John Anderson, except what I read in this forum and on the email lists, and I never wrote any "testimony." [quote]You can certainly call the shop on Monday<hr></blockquote>Hell will freeze over before I have any dealings with Speed Farce Racing. Good luck Tim. Looks like you'll need it as confused as you and John appear to be.

951and944S

Danny, The stock wastegate design, uses a spring to hold a round valve in the closed position allowing, in theory, the full amount of exhaust to the pipe that feeds it towards the turbo hotside, wheel, which is attached to the inlet turbine directly, 1:1 ratio.
The spring becomes weak, presumably from the affect of heat through time on the metal used to constuct the spring, and repititive compression making it weaker over time. Also, when recently renewing a stoack wastegate, I noticed that a buildup of carbon/burned oil can greatly affect the seating abilities of the valve itself.

One more note on the stock design:
Two out of three stock wastegates I have inspected had cracks in the seat used by the valve for sealing when closed. This could cause the whole seat to break apart and exit the wastegate itself through the exhaust when the valve is lifted.

Aftermarket WG's are made of better/modern materials and tolerances, thus the gain in performance/sealing capabilities, since the stock WG opens prematurely, exiting useful ehaust pressure before desired boost is reached.

One last note on shimming:
There are two known methods (that I've seen) for shimming sock wastegates.
One being a shim cut from metal stock in the dimension of the diaphram, the second being to install washers at the three bolt attaching locations.
I did a little experiment when looking at potential shimming procedures recently and found that if you shim using the washer method, you are somewhat defeating the purpose.
I placed three washers in the normal locations, grinded and filed to 3mm thickness, placed stacked feeler gauges equalling 3mm halfway between the washers, between the wastegate body and the diaphram. When applying 10psi air supply, i could not remove the feeler gauge. This proves that the diaphram construction does not have sufficient reinforcment to support the wastegate from deflection, if shimmed on three sides.
I did not, admittedly follow through to measure the actual amount of deflection, but I can assure you that if you set the gap at 3mm, with washers, the resulting actual shim space will be less than 3mm, when WG diaphram pressure is applied. Also I only used one example of a stock WG, so results are open for arguement, since I did not attempt to duplicate the findings on another sample. I highly recommend using a 1-piece shim that will completely support the entire WG diaphram base, and by all means check the valve seat...!

Cheers

951and944S

Tom, seems like a case of mistaken identity, chances are, the guy that Tim's confusing you with, may have recieved a battery hold down bracket, unexpectidly....?

Cheers

TurboTim

To answer Danny's questions......

The stock wastegate is only a single port design.It uses pressure to open the wastegate by allowing the valve to be forced out of the valvebody thus opening the wastegate.

A dual-port wastehate has to ports.One uses vacuum and one uses boost.Once the pressure differential is reached it will allow the wastegate to open and bleed excess boost.

A boost controller will allow you to take control of the wastegate but you will only be able to control what your wastegate spring will allow. Typically these stock wastegates crack open early and do not allow you to hold boost in the high rpms.Without the ability to hold boost at high rpms you will lose power. Now sometimes the stock wastegate works pretty well and you can hold boost till redline or at least very high in the rpm range.For most people this is just a drean and this is the reason they go to an aftermarket wastegate or at least a dual port design.

A little more info on the stock wastegate and why using this wastegate(either stock, ours or the Lindsey unit) is not the greatest way to control boost.The first thing is the fact that the wastegate is somewhat of a backward design.On many of the aftermarket wastegates the valve is facing into the exhaust flow coming from the header.This means the valve is "pushed in" to the valve body. On the stock or other versions of the stock wastegate, the valve is facing away from the header.This means the valve is "pushed out" of the valve body.Now you are dealing with a design that actually allows velocity to increase as it hits the backside of the valve which in some case allows the valve to be forced open early or escape pass the valve early, without the valve opening at all! The latter scenario I just described really depends on the condition of the valve and the valve seat.It is very similiar to the way the head works.Another potential problem is that the dual-port designs are completely opposite of the nice aftermarket wastegates like the Tial and Deltagates.For example the top of the acutator on a Tial is the Vacuum port.On the stock wastegate it is the boost port.The bottom of the acutator on the Tial is the boost port and on the stock wastegate is it the vacuum port.Like I said before the stock wastegate is a completely back-assward design:^) Sometimes this dual-port is not enough to overcome the poor reverse flow design of the stock wastegate.

Why are aftermarket wastegates so much better? Simple. Their valve face is facing into the exhaust flow coming from the header as I stated earlier.This means the exhaust hits a flat surface when it leaves the headers.It will not pick up velocity.It will not get past the valve seat.The only way to overcome this is by the spring pessure of the wastegate or by a boost controller of some sort that can change the pressure differential which then allows the valve to open at a pre-set amount of pressure.

Now onto boost controllers.A boost conmtroller such as the turbonetics MBC that everyone sells or even one of those gimicky dual stage boost controllers which use two Turbonetics controllers with an electric solenoid are not the greatest thing since peanut butter.These controllers are bleeder type controllers which allow some sort of signal to get to the wastegate all the time.This means these controllers are opening the wastegate way to early and thus hindering performance.Electronic controllers are alot nicer since they have the ability to keep the wastegate closed until your pre-set amount of boost is reached. The downside is that electronic controllers are expensive.This is why we desinged our new pressure relief manual boost controller with two different boost settings called the Boost2. It operates like an electronic controller by blocking all signal to the wastegate until the pre-set pressure is reached and then it allows the pressure through to open the wastegate.

Finally.The Tial 35mm is not a direct bolt-on.It has two bolt flanges and the factory set-up uses four bolt flanges.This is why people are prone to going with the Lindsey unit or the dul-port conversion we offer.It is a simple bolt-on.Well this use to be the case because we have devised adaptors that will allow either the Deltagate, Tial 35mm or the Tial 46mm to bolt right on with no welding and with no fuss.Hope this helps to clear a few things up.

danny951

[quote]Originally posted by TurboTim:
<strong>This is why we desinged our new pressure relief manual boost controller with two different boost settings called the Boost2. It operates like an electronic controller by blocking all signal to the wastegate until the pre-set pressure is reached and then it allows the pressure through to open the wastegate.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

So, basically this does technically the same thing as the Lindsey Boost Enhancer. Only there are two settings on the SFR unit. And if these two products work correctly, then I shouldn't need a new wastegate even if mine bleeds right? Since there is no pressure going to the wastegate until the set pressure is reached at the LBE/SFR B2, then the spring on the wastegate does not have the opportunity to bleed, right? Then in that case, wouldn't it be just as good as getting a new Tial?