Made up my mind Im going with a Garrett GT!
06-24-2003, 08:02 PM
#61
Rennlist Junkie Forever
HansB
I am looking for a reliable way to make up to 375 - 400 RWHP on a track only car, preferably on 92 octane gas. This will be next years project, did a complete rebuild allmost to the specs of the car you sold recently (too late... ) Is there any advantage to increase the engine to 2,8l and go with a GT30? Or should I just accept the race gas and buy your GT25 solution?
Buy a built 2.5L!!!! (shameless plug :-)
I'm at 385Hp to the wheels on a dynojet SAE corrected, at 1 bar boost. And... I'm still using the stock intercooler.
I'm about ready to install the larger intercooler, which should put me at 400HP to the wheels, on pump gas, at 1 bar.
I am looking for a reliable way to make up to 375 - 400 RWHP on a track only car, preferably on 92 octane gas. This will be next years project, did a complete rebuild allmost to the specs of the car you sold recently (too late... ) Is there any advantage to increase the engine to 2,8l and go with a GT30? Or should I just accept the race gas and buy your GT25 solution?
Buy a built 2.5L!!!! (shameless plug :-)
I'm at 385Hp to the wheels on a dynojet SAE corrected, at 1 bar boost. And... I'm still using the stock intercooler.
I'm about ready to install the larger intercooler, which should put me at 400HP to the wheels, on pump gas, at 1 bar.
06-24-2003, 11:47 PM
#62
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I will say this much:
Thanks Tony, for not ***** footing around, and showing that more can be done. Im tired of the porsche mentality. It a car, not a baby I dont care, blow the motor up!, its just a motor, I can always, build it again, or buy another.
Damn, when you want stuff done, they way you want it, you gotta do it yourself!!
Thanks Tony, for not ***** footing around, and showing that more can be done. Im tired of the porsche mentality. It a car, not a baby I dont care, blow the motor up!, its just a motor, I can always, build it again, or buy another.
Damn, when you want stuff done, they way you want it, you gotta do it yourself!!
06-24-2003, 11:56 PM
#63
Rennlist Junkie Forever
M Danger
I was told by many people that I wouldn't be able to get 400+HP to the wheels on a 2.5, on pump gas, at 15 psi.
Guess what? They were all wrong.
In about 2 weeks, you'll be seeing some dyno sheets of me not only breaking 400HP to the wheels, but you'll see at least 410-420Hp to the wheels, at no more than 16 psi, using pump gas, and on a 2.5 liter turbo motor using factory pistons, rings, and block.
Just wait....
mu ha ha
I was told by many people that I wouldn't be able to get 400+HP to the wheels on a 2.5, on pump gas, at 15 psi.
Guess what? They were all wrong.
In about 2 weeks, you'll be seeing some dyno sheets of me not only breaking 400HP to the wheels, but you'll see at least 410-420Hp to the wheels, at no more than 16 psi, using pump gas, and on a 2.5 liter turbo motor using factory pistons, rings, and block.
Just wait....
mu ha ha
06-25-2003, 12:09 AM
#64
Rennlist Member
Tony, you have created a major problem for a lot of people. You are the Bogey everyone will be shooting for now. I mean, you have mixed and matched so many parts from so many different vendors that it would be a headache to get it all together for most people and to even dream that it would work.
I guess also, knowledge of whats going on helps in your case.
Raj
I guess also, knowledge of whats going on helps in your case.
Raj
06-25-2003, 12:19 AM
#65
TonyG,
What are the driving characteristics of your car with your setup?
Have you ever considered more displacement or is it not worth it?
Anyway, you did everything right and made the power this engine is capable of so good job Tony.
What are the driving characteristics of your car with your setup?
Have you ever considered more displacement or is it not worth it?
Anyway, you did everything right and made the power this engine is capable of so good job Tony.
06-25-2003, 12:41 AM
#66
Rennlist Junkie Forever
Yo Raj
Yes I've mixed 'n' matched parts... but in reality... very few of the parts are made by the vendors...
I've tried just about all of them, have sold what I didn't like or what wasn't going to take me where I wanted to go, and, as a result, have come up with what it takes to make big HP, at a reasonable amount of boost.
And to do that, it costs money. A lot of it. But not as much as going to a 3 liter.
I considered a 2.8, but the cost/performance gain and the fact that you have to use sleeved cylinders and aftermarket pistons just doesn't make sense. I can apply that same money that it would take to do a 2.8, and get a lot more power for the buck.
A 3 liter would be nice, but that would add a good $10k to the price. For what? Well... more torque and a little more power.
I could, with a 3.0, drive the same turbo a lot sooner, or I could go to a bigger turbo with the same lag, and make more power. But how much power do I need? I mean... isn't 400+ at 15psi enough? The car is wild fast as-is.
Cars with the huge torque curve have a tough time getting that power down to the ground. And it's even more "tougher" to exit the corner properly with a huge hit of power.
What I wanted was power that "builds" to redline.
That's what I got.
Yes there's no real power below 3000 rpms. So what! The fix is easy! DOWNSHIFT!
Downwshift, and any issues of lag are irrelevant. Period.
The car drives real nice in the street, and gets over 25mpg on the highway.
I'd run this car against any 3 liter turbo out there once I get the larger intercooler on (oh.. any maybe my new individual throttle butterfly intake with port injected water/alcohol mix!).
Just wait. :-)
Yes I've mixed 'n' matched parts... but in reality... very few of the parts are made by the vendors...
I've tried just about all of them, have sold what I didn't like or what wasn't going to take me where I wanted to go, and, as a result, have come up with what it takes to make big HP, at a reasonable amount of boost.
And to do that, it costs money. A lot of it. But not as much as going to a 3 liter.
I considered a 2.8, but the cost/performance gain and the fact that you have to use sleeved cylinders and aftermarket pistons just doesn't make sense. I can apply that same money that it would take to do a 2.8, and get a lot more power for the buck.
A 3 liter would be nice, but that would add a good $10k to the price. For what? Well... more torque and a little more power.
I could, with a 3.0, drive the same turbo a lot sooner, or I could go to a bigger turbo with the same lag, and make more power. But how much power do I need? I mean... isn't 400+ at 15psi enough? The car is wild fast as-is.
Cars with the huge torque curve have a tough time getting that power down to the ground. And it's even more "tougher" to exit the corner properly with a huge hit of power.
What I wanted was power that "builds" to redline.
That's what I got.
Yes there's no real power below 3000 rpms. So what! The fix is easy! DOWNSHIFT!
Downwshift, and any issues of lag are irrelevant. Period.
The car drives real nice in the street, and gets over 25mpg on the highway.
I'd run this car against any 3 liter turbo out there once I get the larger intercooler on (oh.. any maybe my new individual throttle butterfly intake with port injected water/alcohol mix!).
Just wait. :-)
06-25-2003, 12:48 AM
#67
Rennlist Junkie Forever
blitz951
The driving characteristics are very good. Easily as good as a stock car.
I've considered a larger engine.... but why not take a 2.5L turbo engine and make big power with that? For less? And with less headaches, and less fabrication, and less money, and less "waiting for vendors to provide the parts...", and less............ you get the point.
With the correct combination bolt on parts, however costly, you can make huge power with a 2.5.
Remember... all the parts that you have to purchase to make big power in a 2.5 you have to purchase to make big power in a 3.0!
The driving characteristics are very good. Easily as good as a stock car.
I've considered a larger engine.... but why not take a 2.5L turbo engine and make big power with that? For less? And with less headaches, and less fabrication, and less money, and less "waiting for vendors to provide the parts...", and less............ you get the point.
With the correct combination bolt on parts, however costly, you can make huge power with a 2.5.
Remember... all the parts that you have to purchase to make big power in a 2.5 you have to purchase to make big power in a 3.0!
06-25-2003, 12:57 AM
#68
Rennlist Member
Hey Tony, now that you know how to make this power, you can start selling it in kit form, ie "410rwhp kit". I know it would easily run upwards of over $10k to do it.
Ever consider that?
Raj
Ever consider that?
Raj
06-25-2003, 02:02 AM
#69
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Raj,
Tony has the majority of the SFR 420 kit. In fact we will be replacing the last few components with the rest of the kit and then dyno his car. At 18-20 psi this car will make well over 420 at the wheels. If we do a glory run at 25 psi or so I wouldnt be surprised to see over 500 at the wheels.
Tony has the majority of the SFR 420 kit. In fact we will be replacing the last few components with the rest of the kit and then dyno his car. At 18-20 psi this car will make well over 420 at the wheels. If we do a glory run at 25 psi or so I wouldnt be surprised to see over 500 at the wheels.
06-25-2003, 02:51 AM
#70
Rennlist Junkie Forever
Raj
Yes I've thought about it. But then I would be entering the "fray".... which means that every post I made with respect to recommendations would be biased.
Further, for me to even consider it, I would have to have a bunch of people lined up ready to go... so that they could be "mass produced" and gotten out the door quickly.
Lastly, I really don't want to be in the repair business.... which is easily where you can end up doing these types of modifications.
It's much easier to sit back, and try everybodies goodies, then pick and choose to come up with the winning combination.
Yeah there's no money in it this way, but there's a lot less headaches!
Yes I've thought about it. But then I would be entering the "fray".... which means that every post I made with respect to recommendations would be biased.
Further, for me to even consider it, I would have to have a bunch of people lined up ready to go... so that they could be "mass produced" and gotten out the door quickly.
Lastly, I really don't want to be in the repair business.... which is easily where you can end up doing these types of modifications.
It's much easier to sit back, and try everybodies goodies, then pick and choose to come up with the winning combination.
Yeah there's no money in it this way, but there's a lot less headaches!
06-25-2003, 05:10 PM
#71
Rennlist Member
Tim, I thought a major part of Tony's equation is his trick Milledge head and cam. I would think that has to be worth atleast 30-35rwhp. You take that out of the equation, you are left with 360rwhp which are still good numbers.
I thought Tony's setup had parts from SFR, HR and Milledge, isn't that true Tony?
From what I remember, the turbo and all plumbing for exhaust/crossover is SFR
The MAF is Huntley and chips are Huntley as well.
Head and Cam are Jon Milledge.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Raj
I thought Tony's setup had parts from SFR, HR and Milledge, isn't that true Tony?
From what I remember, the turbo and all plumbing for exhaust/crossover is SFR
The MAF is Huntley and chips are Huntley as well.
Head and Cam are Jon Milledge.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Raj
06-26-2003, 09:11 AM
#72
Rennlist Member
TonyG,
Quote:
"I'd run this car against any 3 liter turbo out there once I get the larger intercooler on (oh.. any maybe my new individual throttle butterfly intake with port injected water/alcohol mix!).
Just wait. :-)"
Now Tony, didn't think I'd read that and let it slide now did ya!? I'm not going to sit here and tell you I'd make your little puffer look like a '79 Pinto running on two bad cylinders if it tried to go against my deep breather cause you got a lot of power comin' off that little motor of yours. I gotta give you props for that. But with a statement like that I assume your a gamblin' man. So go find the courage to back that up and come to Vegas. Late at night, there's a nice new beltway with no development on either side of it. We'll go for a run, and I'll spank ya like a newborn. I may even let one of my supermodel girlfriends drive just to make it even. Can't make it? No sweat. I'm actually a professional model and go out to L.A. frequently for auditions so I can even come to you. Afterwards, to show you I'm not such an arrogant bastard, I'll have one of the girls bring a friend and I'll buy dinner. No hard feelings.
LOL!!! I'm just bustin' your ***** man! LOL. On the serious tip, you got a hell of a motor that makes mad power. Took a lot of time, cash, patience and tuning. Congratulations. Hell of a job! Talk soon.
Quote:
"I'd run this car against any 3 liter turbo out there once I get the larger intercooler on (oh.. any maybe my new individual throttle butterfly intake with port injected water/alcohol mix!).
Just wait. :-)"
Now Tony, didn't think I'd read that and let it slide now did ya!? I'm not going to sit here and tell you I'd make your little puffer look like a '79 Pinto running on two bad cylinders if it tried to go against my deep breather cause you got a lot of power comin' off that little motor of yours. I gotta give you props for that. But with a statement like that I assume your a gamblin' man. So go find the courage to back that up and come to Vegas. Late at night, there's a nice new beltway with no development on either side of it. We'll go for a run, and I'll spank ya like a newborn. I may even let one of my supermodel girlfriends drive just to make it even. Can't make it? No sweat. I'm actually a professional model and go out to L.A. frequently for auditions so I can even come to you. Afterwards, to show you I'm not such an arrogant bastard, I'll have one of the girls bring a friend and I'll buy dinner. No hard feelings.
LOL!!! I'm just bustin' your ***** man! LOL. On the serious tip, you got a hell of a motor that makes mad power. Took a lot of time, cash, patience and tuning. Congratulations. Hell of a job! Talk soon.
06-26-2003, 09:17 AM
#73
Rennlist Member
Man! I just reread my post. That was even hard for me to read without stepping deep in my own S#@T. Hope no one took me too seriously. That's what I get for being on here at 4:00 am. I'm going to bed. Talk to you guys tomorrow. LOL.
06-26-2003, 12:28 PM
#74
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DFSTEST 951,
Psi for psi of boost, I think Tony could give you a run for the money.Remember, he is at 385 @ wheels at a mere 15 psi. Add another 6 psi on top of that and a turbo that is right in its eficiency range and it could spell.......getting your butt kicked by a much smaller 2.5L with an eight valve head! HA HA. I think we should have a little grudge match on the dyno. I will pay for the dyno time. Can you make it out here? This offer is open to ANYONE that thinks they have what it takes.The only stipulation being that the cars are run at the same boost levels. I will also give away free stuff to ANY 951 that can beat Tonys horsepower mark. Are you guys ready to have some fun? I will even have a trophy made that says, "Fastest Street Legal 951 in the US" that will go to the winner. If enough people show up I will also bring out the monster horsepower car.Here is a dyno chart.
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/supra882.jpg" target="_blank">http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/supra882.jpg</a>
Be prepared for it to make another 150 horsepower on top of this though:^)
Psi for psi of boost, I think Tony could give you a run for the money.Remember, he is at 385 @ wheels at a mere 15 psi. Add another 6 psi on top of that and a turbo that is right in its eficiency range and it could spell.......getting your butt kicked by a much smaller 2.5L with an eight valve head! HA HA. I think we should have a little grudge match on the dyno. I will pay for the dyno time. Can you make it out here? This offer is open to ANYONE that thinks they have what it takes.The only stipulation being that the cars are run at the same boost levels. I will also give away free stuff to ANY 951 that can beat Tonys horsepower mark. Are you guys ready to have some fun? I will even have a trophy made that says, "Fastest Street Legal 951 in the US" that will go to the winner. If enough people show up I will also bring out the monster horsepower car.Here is a dyno chart.
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/supra882.jpg" target="_blank">http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/supra882.jpg</a>
Be prepared for it to make another 150 horsepower on top of this though:^)
06-26-2003, 12:36 PM
#75
Three Wheelin'
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Aaah, so that's how those Supras do it. I take it that with the size of those turbos, a wastegate is entirely unecessary until some time after 6000 rpm.
Tim, instead of requiring a specific boost level, how about requiring a specific grade of gasoline. This seems more sensible to me, or at least more in tune with real world performance tradeoffs. If someone wants to tune overly aggressively to win the competition, they do so at the peril of their own engine.
Tim, instead of requiring a specific boost level, how about requiring a specific grade of gasoline. This seems more sensible to me, or at least more in tune with real world performance tradeoffs. If someone wants to tune overly aggressively to win the competition, they do so at the peril of their own engine.