Installing a SFR stg2/T04B turbo?
12-30-2010, 08:53 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Installing a SFR stg2/T04B turbo?
Just bought a SFR stg 2 turbo and is deciding if I should do the installation myself or let my mechanic do it....
The turbo has a T04B housing and if I understood SFR correctly the only required mod is the temp sensor.
Searching in the forums I found a lot of discusisons on installing the bigger E housing and not that much about the B housing.
Some questions:
- Is the temp sensor the only thing requiring modification?
- What mod is required to the temp sensor?
- Can a shorter temp sensor be used ?
- Has anyone got pictures of an installed T04B/KKK hybrid?
/Dea
The turbo has a T04B housing and if I understood SFR correctly the only required mod is the temp sensor.
Searching in the forums I found a lot of discusisons on installing the bigger E housing and not that much about the B housing.
Some questions:
- Is the temp sensor the only thing requiring modification?
- What mod is required to the temp sensor?
- Can a shorter temp sensor be used ?
- Has anyone got pictures of an installed T04B/KKK hybrid?
/Dea
12-30-2010, 11:28 AM
#2
Three Wheelin'
I had a buddy helping, but I did my turbo install myself a few weeks back - and I'm certainly what you'd call a 'shade tree' mechanic. Prior to that, I had installed a Vitesse MAF, new injectors, a Tial WG, all new vacuum lines, etc... - nothing too major.
The biggest PITA, for me anyway, was getting all the exhaust stuff to line back up - it was definitely where having a 2nd set of hands helped immensly.
Your other PITA is the turbo mount bolt that you have to get to from under the car going up through the motor mount arm. Just get a bunch of PB Blaster or Kroil on it for a day or so before and hopefully it comes out as clean as mine did.
Outside of that, it's a pretty straightforward job. Some tough bolts to get to so make sure you have plenty of tools to solve for that - lots of extensions, wobbles, etc...
Also, probably not a bad time to replace the AOS o-rings while you are in there - pretty easy to get to it with the turbo out.
You'll also want to make sure you buy new crush rings for the exhaust peices you'll tear apart and you'll need new o-rings for the top and bottom of the turbo. My Vitesse turbo required a paper'ish type gasket as well on the outlet side since the new turbo has a square'ish opening and the stock mount has a circle'ish opening.
It took me and OnSpeed a couple days to get it in - but it was worth it. Nice knowing how to do stuff like that, and knowing that it was done properly.
The biggest PITA, for me anyway, was getting all the exhaust stuff to line back up - it was definitely where having a 2nd set of hands helped immensly.
Your other PITA is the turbo mount bolt that you have to get to from under the car going up through the motor mount arm. Just get a bunch of PB Blaster or Kroil on it for a day or so before and hopefully it comes out as clean as mine did.
Outside of that, it's a pretty straightforward job. Some tough bolts to get to so make sure you have plenty of tools to solve for that - lots of extensions, wobbles, etc...
Also, probably not a bad time to replace the AOS o-rings while you are in there - pretty easy to get to it with the turbo out.
You'll also want to make sure you buy new crush rings for the exhaust peices you'll tear apart and you'll need new o-rings for the top and bottom of the turbo. My Vitesse turbo required a paper'ish type gasket as well on the outlet side since the new turbo has a square'ish opening and the stock mount has a circle'ish opening.
It took me and OnSpeed a couple days to get it in - but it was worth it. Nice knowing how to do stuff like that, and knowing that it was done properly.
12-30-2010, 11:50 AM
#3
Racer
Thread Starter
What exhaust parts did you remove?
Looking at the description in Clarks Garage he recommends draining the cooling system and removing the turbo water pump, is this really necessary?
Is there any difference in doing this with a late 2-pc cross-over?
Any pictures?
/Dea
Looking at the description in Clarks Garage he recommends draining the cooling system and removing the turbo water pump, is this really necessary?
Is there any difference in doing this with a late 2-pc cross-over?
Any pictures?
/Dea
12-30-2010, 01:24 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
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The turbo water pump is right by your overflow resevoir and is very easy to remove. You will want this out of the way so you have mre room to work with. You will be removing the cooling lines to the turbo so the cooling system will need a drain. 2 piece will make your exhaust removal easier. It shouldn't be all that bad. Just remember what all you took off and where it goes! Good luck!
12-30-2010, 01:26 PM
#5
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The water pump should not have to come off. You will not be touching the front of the motor. I have not done the turbo replacement but have been basically that far "in." Yo will be removing the cooling lines to the turbo so the cooling system should be drained...he might mention the removal due to crud getting into the system. 2 piece will make your exhaust removal easier. It shouldn't be all that bad. Just remember what all you took off and where it goes! Good luck!
No you do not have to drain the coolant system. Clamp the lines off with clamp pliers, and pull the turbo.
12-30-2010, 06:53 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
yeah, the turbo water pump should really be removed - it's easy - a few bolts and it's off.
The exhaust connects to the turbo in two different places and we had to loosen most of the bolts on the headers to tweak the exhaust back over to get it to fit back on to the turbo. We wasted an hour or more trying to get the downpipe to fit onto the turbo (you really have to hit those mounting bolts from the bottom first - I can't even imagine a way to get those to lineup after you have the exhaust bolted on) before we said 'f' it and just loosened I think all but 1 or 2 of the bolts on the headers (and on one of the exhaust hangars half way down to the muffler) to get enough leverage on it to get all 4 bolts on the downpipe/turbo. That was without question the biggest PITA of the job.
And no, you don't have to drain the coolant - just go to Sears and grab a set of those hose pliers - clamp the hose coming off the coolant reservoir off and then disconnect from the turbo. You'll have to be careful with a few other lines to make sure they aren't pointing down and gravity kicks in - but it's doable without dumping all the coolant for sure.
As for the shorter temp sensors - I have one on my turbo, it came with it (Vitesse Stage 2), but there was a thread a while back with a link to an aftermarket one that you can buy and install yourself in lieu of the stock one which will most likely not work with the bigger turbo.
The exhaust connects to the turbo in two different places and we had to loosen most of the bolts on the headers to tweak the exhaust back over to get it to fit back on to the turbo. We wasted an hour or more trying to get the downpipe to fit onto the turbo (you really have to hit those mounting bolts from the bottom first - I can't even imagine a way to get those to lineup after you have the exhaust bolted on) before we said 'f' it and just loosened I think all but 1 or 2 of the bolts on the headers (and on one of the exhaust hangars half way down to the muffler) to get enough leverage on it to get all 4 bolts on the downpipe/turbo. That was without question the biggest PITA of the job.
And no, you don't have to drain the coolant - just go to Sears and grab a set of those hose pliers - clamp the hose coming off the coolant reservoir off and then disconnect from the turbo. You'll have to be careful with a few other lines to make sure they aren't pointing down and gravity kicks in - but it's doable without dumping all the coolant for sure.
As for the shorter temp sensors - I have one on my turbo, it came with it (Vitesse Stage 2), but there was a thread a while back with a link to an aftermarket one that you can buy and install yourself in lieu of the stock one which will most likely not work with the bigger turbo.
12-30-2010, 06:56 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
oh, I bought the exhaust kit off 944online and replaced all the mounting hardware as I was putting stuff back in. Worth the 40 something bucks...
http://www.944online.com/cgi-bin/ASI...ystem-944turbo
http://www.944online.com/cgi-bin/ASI...ystem-944turbo
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12-30-2010, 07:53 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
No you do not have to drain the coolant system. Clamp the lines off with clamp pliers, and pull the turbo.[/QUOTE]
This is great advice. Will save you hours of work! I have swapped my turbo several times and this is what I do.
This is great advice. Will save you hours of work! I have swapped my turbo several times and this is what I do.
12-30-2010, 08:14 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
I'm sure it's been said, but you're going to want to loosen or disconnect the crossover pipe, regardless of 2 piece or 1 piece. New turbo won't sit exactly where the old one did, and so you'll have a hell of a time trying to get it to line up, not to mention the lack of leverage andspace with the crossover pipe in place. Everything else is rather smooth sailing... have swivel extensions handy, different combinations of 10mm, 13mm, 15mm sockets and wrenches... helps a lot if you have small hands. You're going to need to loosen the steering rack, just a simple 4 bolts. You need to move it ever so slightly to get a straight shot at the 2 bolts holding the turbo in. Just take your time, and drench the bolts with penetrating spray at least a few hours before. Would probably help if you had someone working with you, one who has already done the job before. Took ~15-20 hours when I helped out Ken... probably can do it again in less than 8 by myself, even quicker with a helper.
12-31-2010, 09:53 AM
#10
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the advice!
I think I'll give it a try, the car doesn't have to be ready until April and since I'm changing the injectors the manifold etc. has to come off anyway.
Reason for not wanting to empty the coolant system is that there's no drain in the garage....
I also found TechnoDucks thread on this with some really useful pictures
.
Is there no way to remove the turbo without removing the downpipe? If so what makes it not possible?
The new turbo has screws instead of pin bolts to the downpipe, does this help the mounting? see the pictures here: https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...g-ii-t04e.html
Does the AOS normally need any internal cleaning?
Anything else that should be changed or checked when doing the swap?
/Dea
I think I'll give it a try, the car doesn't have to be ready until April and since I'm changing the injectors the manifold etc. has to come off anyway.
Reason for not wanting to empty the coolant system is that there's no drain in the garage....
I also found TechnoDucks thread on this with some really useful pictures
.Is there no way to remove the turbo without removing the downpipe? If so what makes it not possible?
The new turbo has screws instead of pin bolts to the downpipe, does this help the mounting? see the pictures here: https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...g-ii-t04e.html
Does the AOS normally need any internal cleaning?
Anything else that should be changed or checked when doing the swap?
/Dea
12-31-2010, 12:12 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
The downpipe can stay on the old turbo and swapped over once the turbo is out of the car. Just disconnect the 3 bolts that connect the downpipe to the rest of the exhuast. The cross over does not need to be touched to remove the old turbo either. Installation is another story.
AOS shouldn't need to be cleaned... unless there's coolant and oil mixxing or something.
Can't think of too many things to change when doing the swap... AOS seals, exhaust crush rings, intake gasket... If you've still go tthe CO test port on the cross over pipe, the little tube that's by the cam tower, might be a good time to remove it and use a lug nut to cap it. That's not really essential though since that can be done at any time.
I'm sure someone else will chime in on better suggestions.
AOS shouldn't need to be cleaned... unless there's coolant and oil mixxing or something.
Can't think of too many things to change when doing the swap... AOS seals, exhaust crush rings, intake gasket... If you've still go tthe CO test port on the cross over pipe, the little tube that's by the cam tower, might be a good time to remove it and use a lug nut to cap it. That's not really essential though since that can be done at any time.
I'm sure someone else will chime in on better suggestions.
12-31-2010, 12:22 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
yeah, it's most definitely easier to take the turbo out with the downpipe still attached. In fact, I'm not sure it's even possible to get to one of the bolts while it's still attached even if you wanted to. You may want to loosen the other three bolts you can get to while it's attached, makes it a lot easier to torque the hell out of them while the turbo is still attached.
I didn't really clean the inside of my AOS, just wiped down the outside...installed new o-rings and re-attached it. The bolts getting that thing back on can be a little tricky...was nice having an extra set of hands for that one too...
944online sells the entire crush ring set too if you still have the stock exhaust. If not, at least get the ones for the pieces you are taking apart.
The only other thing we did was swap the voltage regulator in the alternator while everything was out. It's pretty tight down there and it was pretty easy to get the alternator shroud off and swap while the turbo was out.
Nothing else I can think of...there's a nice write up here too for a little more information....
http://members.rennlist.com/tom86951...ocharger_r.htm
I didn't really clean the inside of my AOS, just wiped down the outside...installed new o-rings and re-attached it. The bolts getting that thing back on can be a little tricky...was nice having an extra set of hands for that one too...
944online sells the entire crush ring set too if you still have the stock exhaust. If not, at least get the ones for the pieces you are taking apart.
The only other thing we did was swap the voltage regulator in the alternator while everything was out. It's pretty tight down there and it was pretty easy to get the alternator shroud off and swap while the turbo was out.
Nothing else I can think of...there's a nice write up here too for a little more information....
http://members.rennlist.com/tom86951...ocharger_r.htm
01-30-2011, 02:21 PM
#15
Racer
Thread Starter
I've started the turbo and wastegate swap,
I've removed the intake, injectors + fuel rail, front exhaust, wastegate and loosened two of the four turbo to cross-over nuts. Left to do is oil and water connections and the two turbo mount insex bolts.
Some new questions before I attempt to take the rest apart:
- How do I get to the long insex turbo bolt, there seems to be a lot of stuff in the way... my car has a small heatshield that really blocks it off. Is it necessary to remove the alternator shroud?
- Are new crush rings needed everywhere? I can understand that the ones at the turbo should be changed since they're tricky to get to but is it really necessary to change the ones at the wastegate? I think I've dismounted the front exhaust from the downpipe 5 times without changing that crush ring and it still seals without any problems.
- I've seen several threads recommending an oil restrictor and also an adapter plate between the oil feed line and the turbo when using a Garrett center section. Any opinions on this?
/Dea
I've removed the intake, injectors + fuel rail, front exhaust, wastegate and loosened two of the four turbo to cross-over nuts. Left to do is oil and water connections and the two turbo mount insex bolts.
Some new questions before I attempt to take the rest apart:
- How do I get to the long insex turbo bolt, there seems to be a lot of stuff in the way... my car has a small heatshield that really blocks it off. Is it necessary to remove the alternator shroud?
- Are new crush rings needed everywhere? I can understand that the ones at the turbo should be changed since they're tricky to get to but is it really necessary to change the ones at the wastegate? I think I've dismounted the front exhaust from the downpipe 5 times without changing that crush ring and it still seals without any problems.
- I've seen several threads recommending an oil restrictor and also an adapter plate between the oil feed line and the turbo when using a Garrett center section. Any opinions on this?
/Dea