joster86turbo

cone filter and maf = not the same thing...people tend to see loss of power with a cone filter b/c of sucking up hot air, not to mention you're still using the barn door afm. take the advice get a maf. you will see and increase in spool.

and the stock wastegate bleeds boost but opening up at like 3 psi. get a tial or LR dual port.

lots of knowledgeable people letting you know whats wrong, go with it.

rop3

To help you get it straight I will clairfy.

The car has been handed over to me a couple times now two out of the three (differnt turbo/software) I was told it was dialed in. With the new V 2R I was told it was 95% there. Hence the frustration it has been a two year road.

The "say go" drag is how I was told to do it albiet lower RPM, get both cars at a set rpm stay there for a few hundred yards and floor it. Same car same trans stright line.

We did agree dyno would be a better measurement that would be next. Again it could all be tuning I surely hope so.

If not I go back to stock nothing wrong with that just an expensive lesson. Look at all that's been done and it is all new. If it cant perform as well as the "stock" old car around town then I think that is the only option.

My NJ shop just did a car with some mods stock turbo and the thing is fast. John and I discussed a smaller turbo as did the installer.

Is it necessary I dont know hence this post. I do know it will be at the sacrifice of power which I did not know going into the project. But again lesson learned.

rop3

I have John's MAF and a LR dual port gate. Again I apreciate all the input from everyone and hope it is just a tuning issue which may very well be. No finger pointing here.

But in talking with John, the installer my NJ shop and looking at Chris White's comments all are hinting at a smaller turbo. It will be at the sacrfice of HP/torque, it was never explained early on.

The point of the thread to get some helfull insight as to whether there must be a sacrifice in the area that I am concerned about. Admitedly I do not know enough about these cars. Not looking to just want to enjoy it.

adrial

I would be willing to take the V2R turbo off your hands for a hundred bucks.

My 26/8 (chips, stock AFM, stock WG) has always seen full boost (~15psi) around ~3500rpm in 2nd gear...

Where in NJ are you? If northern NJ ... I would be happy to compare cars and maybe make some observations on the car's tune (especially if you have a wideband).

blown 944

Sounds like you need to either go to another shop or give them more time to get it tuned in.

It would be interesting if you had some boost and AFR logs in a higher gear as that would really tell you what is happening with spoolup and tuning .

Is the DP WG hooked up properly?? Also is the boost controller working right.

gstreev

Thats now enough of a reason to switch to an Iphone, my verizon contract is up next month. Anybody want a good deal on a Palm Treo

blown 944

That thing is great.. It actually showed me that the s2 trans is a little slower in a quarter mile do to the shifting.

333pg333

I still wouldn't give up. I don't know what John claims the differences are between the 2r and the s3, but it really shouldn't be anything but a better turbo in most places on the curve.

gstreev

At 51 and 25+ cars later (does a Fiat count?), I have finally realized that I will not buy a car, throw tons of money at it trying to get it right. I don't have the time, the patience or the skill needed. So now I just look for cars that have most of the mods I think I want. Then when I drive it and don't like it, I re-evaluate what I think I want, then again I've been looking for another 951 for several years now.
So I've learned 2 things in life.
1. Know my limitations
2. Try to avoid them

Tom M'Guinn

Rop3, very sorry you are having problems. Regarding the turbo, Adrial confirmed above that his stock S turbo makes about 1 Bar at 3500rpms. In contrast, my Vitesse turbo makes about 1 Bar a full 500 rpms sooner, at 3000. See data log below. Granted, my motor is a bit different, but the spool up is typical for a Vitesse turbo. If your car is making less power than stock, and boost is building slower than stock, something is clearly not set up properly. A 375hp turbo that make full boost at 2000rpms would be great, but unfortunately it's not a realistic hope for a typical 2.5L 951.

Chris White

Fiats count twice...

Chris White

Hi Bob – a couple of more thoughts! –
Your 89 turbo is running quite well - in fact I would say that the miles on it have only increased the power a little (less friction). So it is preforming as well as it ever did, it’s a tough example to compete against.

All the ‘tips’ about restriction don’t mean much at the 2-4k rpm range, it is consuming air at ½ the rate is does at full RPM. Its not an issue to worry about at low rpm.

The engine mods you have done do not increase the power out put at 2-3k rpm with the same boost level. In fact the cam may be hurting the low rpm performance. Head work may also create a small drop in low speed performance if not done right. As a general rule of thumb any work done to increase max power (and this is made at peak engine speed over 6k) will detract from low end performance. Typically you get to optimize an rpm range of about 3k rpm, so you have to pick that range carefully. Most builds are focused on peak power so they optimize for 3.5k to 6.5k performance, so real low end suffers. The stock set up is really tuned for 2.5k to 5.5k (a good street range).

All that being said I think there is still some improvement to be made to your set up. I would swap out to the dual port wastegate if you have done that already. It may give you some better control and a little quicker spool if controlled well. You might consider an adjustable cam gear – you can tune the cam for better low end response at the price of a little high end hp. Playing around with the timing and fuel can really work wonders in ‘waking up’ the turbo in the low end area. There is a fine balance of heat to the turbo (rich and retarded timing) and off boost power (lean and advanced timing) that has to be dialed in. This can take quite a bit of time and trail and error.

In the end don’t expect it to decimate your 89 – if tuned correctly it should do as well up to 3.5k and then really take off.

You may consider having John take a whack at it – he is over in Atlanta, kind if near Florida!

Jfrahm

It's still possible that they overheated the crossover when tuning and the inner wall has sagged. It could also have an issue with the cam timing. It sounds like a problem with the basics to me.

-Joel.

gstreev

Good, I had 3 of em, one was for parts of course.
How about a Lancia?

A.Wayne

Masochist ..... 124 sport coupe (1) many, many moons ago .........