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-   -   The LS1 swap has begun (https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turbo-and-turbo-s-forum/585050-the-ls1-swap-has-begun.html)

V2Rocket 08-26-2010 03:45 PM


Originally Posted by Olli Snellman (Post 7847344)
Too much cubic inches :)

We can add legally 20%. So if you take for example S2, maximum you can have is a 3.6L engine.

did you guys get the 96-99 ford taurus SHO? theres a 3.4L, 8000-rpm boost-friendly v8 for you :D

67King 08-26-2010 04:56 PM


Originally Posted by Olli Snellman (Post 7847783)
That's quite funny, because in europe diesels get lighetr taxation because they pollute less than gas engines according to tighter EU regulations.

That depends on how you define "emissions." The US has historially had MUCH more stringent emissions requirements than the rest of the world, where emissions are NOX and unburned HC. Compared to industrialized Europe, a lot of the US is lower in lattitude, where it gets more humid, etc. Plus with more and bigger cars on the road (which is really a fallout of our geographic isolation in WWII), we used to have BIG problems with smog.

Especially in LA. And if you've heard of the term "CARB," it stands for "California Air Resources Board," which is the catalyst for all emissions standards that come into play.

An example here is that we've had catalytic converters here since 1973. They are newer to Europe. Because fuel economy is more important in Europe, you used to run lean burn strategies over there to improve mileage (by running A/F ratios around 17:1, going off of memory). That drives up EGT's to a point where the catalytic converters get cooked, so we could never do that (not to mention it would also increase NOX to the point where we couldn't pass our emissions requirements).

docwyte 08-26-2010 05:55 PM

Well Olli, Finland is the best place to live because of all the hot, blonde girls, obviously!

docwyte 08-26-2010 07:15 PM

More pics, exhaust is mocked up. Just need to get the X-joint in it, final welding on the exhaust done and pick some exhaust tips...

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ustport007.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ustport008.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ustport009.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ustport012.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ustport010.jpg

MM951 08-26-2010 07:38 PM

Awesome project Doc, the new shops seems to be working quickly and nicely! It is also nice to see another 951 in their hands :burnout:

LS1Porch 08-26-2010 07:47 PM

A TRAILER HITCH?!?!?

docwyte 08-26-2010 07:50 PM

Yep, I tow a small trailer to the track with it. Holds my race wheels/tires, has a tool box and gas cans.

At some point I'd like to get a truck/trailer and I'll do a full cage in the 944, but right now that's just not possible...

TonyG 08-26-2010 10:52 PM

Where are you going to fit the "H" pipe?

Don't leave power on the table.

You can get one in there right behind the cats.

TonyG




Originally Posted by docwyte (Post 7848474)


docwyte 08-26-2010 11:47 PM

Yep the plan is to put one in right behind the cats.

Olli Snellman 08-27-2010 02:30 AM


That depends on how you define "emissions." The US has historially had MUCH more stringent emissions requirements than the rest of the world, where emissions are NOX and unburned HC. Compared to industrialized Europe, a lot of the US is lower in lattitude, where it gets more humid, etc. Plus with more and bigger cars on the road (which is really a fallout of our geographic isolation in WWII), we used to have BIG problems with smog.

Especially in LA. And if you've heard of the term "CARB," it stands for "California Air Resources Board," which is the catalyst for all emissions standards that come into play.

An example here is that we've had catalytic converters here since 1973. They are newer to Europe. Because fuel economy is more important in Europe, you used to run lean burn strategies over there to improve mileage (by running A/F ratios around 17:1, going off of memory). That drives up EGT's to a point where the catalytic converters get cooked, so we could never do that (not to mention it would also increase NOX to the point where we couldn't pass our emissions requirements).
You sound so european. here in Europe people think americans pollute much more compared to europeans :)
I am awere of US emissions systems, i have "hor rod" background, so have ownd US made vechiles and my friends as well. early 70's emissions were more non catalytic systems, which air pumps etc. Remember well my friends 454 powered Chevy which only had about 200 hp because all emissions systems.
At least in EU countries emissions requiments are as tight as in USA, If i remember correctly, state of California have had quite stict regulations.New EU-5 standard is even stricker. What comes to economy-driven countries, EU countries joinded to Kioto-envirnonment agreement. For example USA, China & Russia did not. These countries said it would cost too much for their economy system. I know all of us who live in industrial countries must take these issues seriously. One of the main problem is, less we pollute, then undveloped high populationa countries pollute more and more, like India,China etc. So situation remains more or less the same.

Back to the cars;
yes we have some Ford Taurus here, unfortunately most of them are 6-cylinder cars.

Diesels in Europe does not produce that soot because new particel filter(good for EU-5 standard). We can though improve systems

67King 08-27-2010 09:19 AM


Originally Posted by Olli Snellman (Post 7849350)
At least in EU countries emissions requiments are as tight as in USA, If i remember correctly, state of California have had quite stict regulations.New EU-5 standard is even stricker. What comes to economy-driven countries, EU countries joinded to Kioto-envirnonment agreement. For example USA, China & Russia did not.

You unintentihelp make my point that "it depends on how you define emissions." Kyoto address CO2. CO2 is not an "emission" in the traditional US sense. CO2 is directly proportional to one thing, almost exclusively - fuel economy. WHIch competes with "emissions" in the traditional US sense - NOX and unburned HC. All the things we put on cars to reduce emissions make our fuel economy go down.

I do recognize that newer European standards are much more stringent than in the past. But between our safety requirements, which add size and mass to cars, and our preference for cleaner emissions over fuel economy, we are going to continue to use more fuel.

To give an example of how much our emissions requirements hurt fuel, take a look at what some recent diesel truck owners are doing. I've got a CUmmins 6.7, which has all of hte crap on there. Removing the EGR, DPF, and downstream cat typicallly increases fuel economy by about 30% (!). 15 MPG city becomes 19. 18 highway, though, is becoming as high as 25 for some folks!!!!!

One thing that hurts us is our preference/need for bigger vehicles. But that is a whole 'nother discussion.

944V8inDFW 08-27-2010 11:18 AM

Doc

If you put a merged style x pipe at around 1.63 to 1.66 (based on assumptions of scale from pictures) times the average length of your primary header tubes back from the end of the primary tube (not collector) that will produce the best volumetric pulse efficency AND produce a nice exhaust note rarely heard on a domestic engine.

Something like the below is very easy to incorporate into a parallel type tube arrangment.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-10791/

944V8inDFW 08-27-2010 11:20 AM

picture...
http://static.summitracing.com/globa...pe-10791_w.jpg

67King 08-27-2010 11:47 AM


Originally Posted by 944V8inDFW (Post 7849841)
...........best volumetric pulse efficency AND produce a nice exhaust note rarely heard on a domestic engine.

I can't help but wonder what kind of market there may be for a flat crank for some of the more popular domestic small blocks. Imagine a 944 sounding like a Ferrari (yes, VE will go up, too). That'd be SWEET.

Rogue_Ant 08-27-2010 12:07 PM


Originally Posted by 67King (Post 7849925)
I can't help but wonder what kind of market there may be for a flat crank for some of the more popular domestic small blocks. Imagine a 944 sounding like a Ferrari (yes, VE will go up, too). That'd be SWEET.

+1 I've dreamed of a flat-crank option for an LSx for years now... Then stuff it into an MG MGB :rockon:


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