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-   944 Turbo and Turbo-S Forum (https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turbo-and-turbo-s-forum-72/)
-   -   The LS1 swap has begun (https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turbo-and-turbo-s-forum/585050-the-ls1-swap-has-begun.html)

docwyte 08-13-2010 03:39 PM

The LS1 swap has begun
 
More progress made. Motor has been yanked out of the donor car and is on an engine stand getting cleaned up. A mild cam will get installed. All aluminum V8 goodness!

My car is getting stripped, motor should be coming out of it today.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/docwyte/LS1.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/docwyte/LS12.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/docwyte/LS11.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...51stripped.jpg

minho78 08-13-2010 03:48 PM

What was the donor car?

Euro951 08-13-2010 04:33 PM

Looks good! Keep the pictures of the swap coming!

rdanford 08-13-2010 04:48 PM

Who's doing the swap?

docwyte 08-13-2010 06:12 PM

2002 Camaro SS. So the motor is an LS1 with the LS6 intake manifold and throttle body.

Texas Performance Concepts is doing the swap, they've done several before and manufacture some of the needed swap parts. Figured I didn't want to reinvent the wheel and pay another shops education in the process.

roman944 08-13-2010 06:23 PM

oh nice! guess you are going to work out all those gremlins your car had after all!

docwyte 08-13-2010 06:27 PM

Yep, they're getting exorcised.

sebastian944 08-13-2010 10:15 PM


Originally Posted by docwyte (Post 7813435)
2002 Camaro SS. So the motor is an LS1 with the LS6 intake manifold and throttle body.

Texas Performance Concepts is doing the swap, they've done several before and manufacture some of the needed swap parts. Figured I didn't want to reinvent the wheel and pay another shops education in the process.

How much is it for the motor and full install for this job?

docwyte 08-13-2010 10:50 PM

Prices on the motor vary wildly depending on mileage, year, etc. Best thing to do is contact them directly...

Ski 08-14-2010 01:31 AM

If you can, it would be really interesting for someone to put a $$ figure on this, if one doesn't mind sharing.

With 2.5 machining costing around $800, pistons vary but avg $1500, bearings/bolts/seals/ etc about another $800 - 1100 depending on what you do. If you have to pay for shop labor, that's probably an average of 40hrs total? (eng out 8, tear down 6, build 12, install 14) So, calculator says $7000 +/-, based on $90/hr. If you remove, tear down, build and install, time permitting, then it's about $3100.

I don't care if a Porsche has whatever engine, I'm just truly curious at the cost difference, with the specialized parts. Good luck with it, post some pics when you can.

jjmudd 08-14-2010 01:50 AM

+1
I would like to know myself.

docwyte 08-14-2010 02:02 AM

So you think you can get a rebuilt 2.5l for $3400? Chris White charges quite a bit more than that. A built 2.7 is $6100 and that's reusing the stock rods, figure $7100 with rods. Add $1000 to that for a 3.0. Then you ought to freshen the head, $500, then gaskets and seals $800, then labor to install which is at least $100 an hour. I got figures of well in excess of $12,000 to keep the stock motor in the car.

LS1 motor prices are all over the map, but I got my SS motor with everything needed (all accessories, wiring harness, ecu, etc, etc) with 64k miles on it for $2500. The SS motor comes with the LS6 intake manifolds and throttle body too.

The conversion parts are readily available, you need a crossmember, bellhousing, headers, air filter and intake piping, clutch (spec makes the clutch with the porsche spline pattern) and brakes (either stock unboosted, hydro boosted, or dual tilton/wilwoods.

Depending on what options you choose for brakes, headers, bell housing etc, the price goes up or down some. Same thing with the shop you deal with. Their labor rate could be very high, or very low. If they've never done one of these swaps before, be prepared to pay for their education in the process.

CPR 08-14-2010 02:32 AM


Originally Posted by docwyte (Post 7814350)
So you think you can get a rebuilt 2.5l for $3400? Chris White charges quite a bit more than that. A built 2.7 is $6100 and that's reusing the stock rods, figure $7100 with rods. Add $1000 to that for a 3.0. Then you ought to freshen the head, $500, then gaskets and seals $800, then labor to install which is at least $100 an hour. I got figures of well in excess of $12,000 to keep the stock motor in the car.

LS1 motor prices are all over the map, but I got my SS motor with everything needed (all accessories, wiring harness, ecu, etc, etc) with 64k miles on it for $2500. The SS motor comes with the LS6 intake manifolds and throttle body too.

The conversion parts are readily available, you need a crossmember, bellhousing, headers, air filter and intake piping, clutch (spec makes the clutch with the porsche spline pattern) and brakes (either stock unboosted, hydro boosted, or dual tilton/wilwoods.

Depending on what options you choose for brakes, headers, bell housing etc, the price goes up or down some. Same thing with the shop you deal with. Their labor rate could be very high, or very low. If they've never done one of these swaps before, be prepared to pay for their education in the process.

Doc,

Not that it matters now but,

You can get a fully rebuilt 2.5L Turbo long block for $2450~$2,800.....about what you paid for the used LS motor.

Or since you have a fairly new cylinder head you could get a 2.5L Turbo Short block for $1680~$1990.

Price is dependent on which engine builder one would choose.


I too looked at doing the swap last fall when I had all my issues. The only thing that held me back was the $12,000~$16,000 install price (including conversion parts). That pushed the total cost to $19,700 for what I wanted.

For me, I just couldn't justify that much. Hell, I could get a Gen I Z06 for less than that. Instead I finally went through mine piece by piece, learning a lot along the way and realizing just how incompotent some the 'Certified' Porsche mechanics were who I employed to work on my car.

Now I can effectively/efficiently fix anything on it, which is good feeling. Although one I wish to have done on my own terms and not because I was cleaning up another mehanics mess :)


I wish you the best of luck with this, and hope it is everything you want and deserve. i know this has been trying for you.

Let us the final cost if you don't mind, that would be an important tool to have :thumbup:

Ski 08-14-2010 02:34 AM

But you have to remember, I do all my own labor - track car rebuild, machining - pistons - bearings teflon coated, crank work(upgrade), Woosner rods(upgrade), and we had the head redone - ARP head studs - the long block cost was just under $4200 for all it, but we removed it, tore it down, delivered the spare block to the shop, LR did the crank and head, we assembled and installed. As I mentioned, your own labor or someones labor. It took us 8 months to get it all done but we had the time and were not in a hurry.

But you could use factory head studs, $12 each, stock rods after having them crack checked - Rhobs long block cost us $2850 - machine work was $400, pistons were a true find of Mahle 100.5 for $500 new in the box, head was $550 at LR, new stock head studs, copper nuts, water pump and bolts, gaskets.

Just curious that's all.

TonyG 08-14-2010 03:08 AM

You'll love the LS1. In fact, the first time you drive the car you'll wish you had done the conversion long long ago....

The deal is that it's not an apples-to-apples comparison with respect to cost. The LSx engine makes a LOT more power and has a substantially wider area "under the curve" than any turbo 4 engine. Thus the car, even at the same peak HP level, becomes much faster. (yes... I know you can get a lot of power out of a 951 engine... but you can get a LOT more power out of a LSx engine. And it's more reliable in the process at any given power level...)

So yeah the LSx engine is less expensive than the 951 engine... but the deal is that it's more powerful (apples to apples... )l, has a wider powerband, and is far more reliable.

And honestly... it's awesome to drive.

Good luck luck with your conversion.

TonyG


PS> you don't need a different cross member for the conversion.
PS2> Use the Renegade Hybrids 2 piece bell housing
PS3> make sure you get the Turn 1 powersteering pump


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