944 Advice
01-10-2010, 06:14 PM
#17
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01-10-2010, 07:34 PM
#18
You really have to have a passion for these cars to put up with the maintenance they require. They can be pretty solid, reliable cars if left mostly untouched (or just a couple light mods) and are driven hard but NOT abused.
Keep in mind even newest model you can buy (an '89) is now 21 years old. Even if it was meticulously maintained with a full service history since new - it can still have problems, simply due to the age. Sensors fail. Plastic electrical connectors crumble. Stuff simply just falls apart. Beat the hell out of it and you'll accelerate the decay process.
However, they're also very rewarding to drive, have plenty of power and are balanced wonderfully. They can be built up to pretty amazing power levels, but with that comes added responsibility of extra maintenance (both preventative as well as fixing stuff that will break.)
My car is mostly stock, has a completely fresh drivetrain (less than 1500 miles on motor and trans when I bought it) thanks to the previous owner (another one who got in over his head, dumped a TON of money in it, then bailed and bought himself a Mustang.) I reaped those rewards
And even then, my car has needed a few little things over the time I've had it. Reference sensors, air flow meter, a couple under-hood electrical connectors needed to be replaced, some vacuum lines had crumbled, etc. Fortunately I'm reasonably inclined when it comes to diagnosing and fixing problems. I'd probably be teetering on bankruptcy if I had a shop do all the maintenance (like the PO did... over $25k dumped into it!)
01-10-2010, 10:05 PM
#19
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Thank you very much everyone here is very helpful. My wishes are not to make it into a track car or be street racing everyday, I already have my track car (69 Camaro) I was just asking for a frame of reference to see how it compared to other cars. How solid are these cars because i do somewhat abuse my cars from time to time (powershift,redline it) But that is not on a daily bases and when it comes to taking care of my cars i am very maticulous and ****. How much on average will it cost for me to own and maintain my porsche per year ?
01-10-2010, 11:05 PM
#20
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I got bored after removing my oil cooler lines a little while ago, so I did a little shopping for some things you'll need in the first year or two.
Some of the stuff (WP, belts) you'll probably do right away, but thats only about 500 in parts. But while you're in there, order the 15 piece cooling hose kit. They're only about 150 or so.
Might as well do the cam housing gasket set so the headers dont smoke at stoplights, that'll be about 40 if if you catch it before fire consumes the car, which reminds me of the 3 fuel lines that should be replaced for about 150 or so, but you can sell the little pipe cutter to recover 1.50 The cap, rotor, wires, wires are already removed, so lets spend 250 on them. New intake gaskets will be cheap, but notice the old brittle vac lines and the venturi mess. Might as well get that leak at the AOS cleaned up with new seals, and dont forget the oring for the dipstick tube. Thats another 200 or more to get the intake bolted back on. Crap, the TPS reseal would fix that grime, do that too, but thats cheap. Oil cooler housing seal kit is only 40, but you could wait until it ruins your rod bearings to fix it, that way a new oil pan gasket could be installed. The front engine seal kit is much easier while the airbox, belts and WP are off, and its only 50 or so. Dont forget the thermostats, one is 15, one is 35. You'll need both. You'll notice the cycling valve is a broken joke, so get at least a manual boost controller and hook to the wastegate. Notice the wastegate is nasty, and searching the forum will tell you to order the Tial, Synapse, Lindsey. Thats gonna be 400, and you'll want to get the cat delete while all those fasteners are broken off. Thats only about 500, but make sure you get polished stainless for this item, since no one will ever see it, and it will need to outlast the AC compressor, which probably wont be working when you get the car, but the PO says it just needs a charge. A charge of new drier, new compressor, and possibly new hoses. They ARE 25 years old. It should blow cold for around 600 or so, if you do it all yourself. Dont forget ball joints and tie rod ends while its on the jackstands. The kit to fix the ball joints is 130 for a stocker and the install is fun, what with mixing epoxy and all. If you have $, get the new control arms with the joints installed. Tie rod ends are cheap and just like a ford. Rotors and pads are easy to do at this point, and if you get cheap zimmermanns you can do the front and backs for about 500, but the bearings and seal will push it closer to 600. The front struts are either worn or will be by now...so spend the 600 on them. If you're lucky (1986) you can use the koni inserts and drill/cut/paint your struts yellow, and it'll save about 200. The rear shocks are between 100 and 2000. If you want real handling, sell your M030 stuff on here and you can outsmart those german engineers by filling your wheel wells with 3000 or more of state of the art stuff. The 250 for chips will probably cause your clutch to fail. That'll cost 600-1200 if you do it all yourself, but it should get the car ready for 300HP, if a CV joint doesn't fail first. They're cheap, though. 200 should do it.
If its still leaving a stain on the driveway, its probably red. The PS rack is anywhere from 200 on up, but some of the leak will be from the line on the crossmember. Thats 130, but the other section is 160, at its 25 years old, the metal tag in the line says so. Those two will make buying to 40 hose that hooks to the 25 dollar reservoir on one end, and the 10 fitting on the pump you'll reseal for 30, seem cheap. Crush washers are extra. Make sure to use the nice clamps, not the pepboys clamps. You wont need that many unless you want everything to look nice. Add 75 for clamps and you can do those cooling hoses, too!
Great news! You'll need alot of these items again in about 50,000 miles. The skill and knowledge gained will make it seem less painful the next time, but the parts prices will have gone up by then.
After some or all of these things are done, give John or David a call to order those mods to increase the horsepower to an initial level of performance that you'll find addicting....for a while.
Obviously this is a lame attempt at humor, mostly because it reminds me of what I've done and spent on a weekend driver.
Crap, I forgot bushings.....
Some of the stuff (WP, belts) you'll probably do right away, but thats only about 500 in parts. But while you're in there, order the 15 piece cooling hose kit. They're only about 150 or so.
Might as well do the cam housing gasket set so the headers dont smoke at stoplights, that'll be about 40 if if you catch it before fire consumes the car, which reminds me of the 3 fuel lines that should be replaced for about 150 or so, but you can sell the little pipe cutter to recover 1.50 The cap, rotor, wires, wires are already removed, so lets spend 250 on them. New intake gaskets will be cheap, but notice the old brittle vac lines and the venturi mess. Might as well get that leak at the AOS cleaned up with new seals, and dont forget the oring for the dipstick tube. Thats another 200 or more to get the intake bolted back on. Crap, the TPS reseal would fix that grime, do that too, but thats cheap. Oil cooler housing seal kit is only 40, but you could wait until it ruins your rod bearings to fix it, that way a new oil pan gasket could be installed. The front engine seal kit is much easier while the airbox, belts and WP are off, and its only 50 or so. Dont forget the thermostats, one is 15, one is 35. You'll need both. You'll notice the cycling valve is a broken joke, so get at least a manual boost controller and hook to the wastegate. Notice the wastegate is nasty, and searching the forum will tell you to order the Tial, Synapse, Lindsey. Thats gonna be 400, and you'll want to get the cat delete while all those fasteners are broken off. Thats only about 500, but make sure you get polished stainless for this item, since no one will ever see it, and it will need to outlast the AC compressor, which probably wont be working when you get the car, but the PO says it just needs a charge. A charge of new drier, new compressor, and possibly new hoses. They ARE 25 years old. It should blow cold for around 600 or so, if you do it all yourself. Dont forget ball joints and tie rod ends while its on the jackstands. The kit to fix the ball joints is 130 for a stocker and the install is fun, what with mixing epoxy and all. If you have $, get the new control arms with the joints installed. Tie rod ends are cheap and just like a ford. Rotors and pads are easy to do at this point, and if you get cheap zimmermanns you can do the front and backs for about 500, but the bearings and seal will push it closer to 600. The front struts are either worn or will be by now...so spend the 600 on them. If you're lucky (1986) you can use the koni inserts and drill/cut/paint your struts yellow, and it'll save about 200. The rear shocks are between 100 and 2000. If you want real handling, sell your M030 stuff on here and you can outsmart those german engineers by filling your wheel wells with 3000 or more of state of the art stuff. The 250 for chips will probably cause your clutch to fail. That'll cost 600-1200 if you do it all yourself, but it should get the car ready for 300HP, if a CV joint doesn't fail first. They're cheap, though. 200 should do it.
If its still leaving a stain on the driveway, its probably red. The PS rack is anywhere from 200 on up, but some of the leak will be from the line on the crossmember. Thats 130, but the other section is 160, at its 25 years old, the metal tag in the line says so. Those two will make buying to 40 hose that hooks to the 25 dollar reservoir on one end, and the 10 fitting on the pump you'll reseal for 30, seem cheap. Crush washers are extra. Make sure to use the nice clamps, not the pepboys clamps. You wont need that many unless you want everything to look nice. Add 75 for clamps and you can do those cooling hoses, too!
Great news! You'll need alot of these items again in about 50,000 miles. The skill and knowledge gained will make it seem less painful the next time, but the parts prices will have gone up by then.
After some or all of these things are done, give John or David a call to order those mods to increase the horsepower to an initial level of performance that you'll find addicting....for a while.
Obviously this is a lame attempt at humor, mostly because it reminds me of what I've done and spent on a weekend driver.
Crap, I forgot bushings.....
01-10-2010, 11:39 PM
#21
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I got bored after removing my oil cooler lines a little while ago, so I did a little shopping for some things you'll need in the first year or two.
Some of the stuff (WP, belts) you'll probably do right away, but thats only about 500 in parts. But while you're in there, order the 15 piece cooling hose kit. They're only about 150 or so.
Might as well do the cam housing gasket set so the headers dont smoke at stoplights, that'll be about 40 if if you catch it before fire consumes the car, which reminds me of the 3 fuel lines that should be replaced for about 150 or so, but you can sell the little pipe cutter to recover 1.50 The cap, rotor, wires, wires are already removed, so lets spend 250 on them. New intake gaskets will be cheap, but notice the old brittle vac lines and the venturi mess. Might as well get that leak at the AOS cleaned up with new seals, and dont forget the oring for the dipstick tube. Thats another 200 or more to get the intake bolted back on. Crap, the TPS reseal would fix that grime, do that too, but thats cheap. Oil cooler housing seal kit is only 40, but you could wait until it ruins your rod bearings to fix it, that way a new oil pan gasket could be installed. The front engine seal kit is much easier while the airbox, belts and WP are off, and its only 50 or so. Dont forget the thermostats, one is 15, one is 35. You'll need both. You'll notice the cycling valve is a broken joke, so get at least a manual boost controller and hook to the wastegate. Notice the wastegate is nasty, and searching the forum will tell you to order the Tial, Synapse, Lindsey. Thats gonna be 400, and you'll want to get the cat delete while all those fasteners are broken off. Thats only about 500, but make sure you get polished stainless for this item, since no one will ever see it, and it will need to outlast the AC compressor, which probably wont be working when you get the car, but the PO says it just needs a charge. A charge of new drier, new compressor, and possibly new hoses. They ARE 25 years old. It should blow cold for around 600 or so, if you do it all yourself. Dont forget ball joints and tie rod ends while its on the jackstands. The kit to fix the ball joints is 130 for a stocker and the install is fun, what with mixing epoxy and all. If you have $, get the new control arms with the joints installed. Tie rod ends are cheap and just like a ford. Rotors and pads are easy to do at this point, and if you get cheap zimmermanns you can do the front and backs for about 500, but the bearings and seal will push it closer to 600. The front struts are either worn or will be by now...so spend the 600 on them. If you're lucky (1986) you can use the koni inserts and drill/cut/paint your struts yellow, and it'll save about 200. The rear shocks are between 100 and 2000. If you want real handling, sell your M030 stuff on here and you can outsmart those german engineers by filling your wheel wells with 3000 or more of state of the art stuff. The 250 for chips will probably cause your clutch to fail. That'll cost 600-1200 if you do it all yourself, but it should get the car ready for 300HP, if a CV joint doesn't fail first. They're cheap, though. 200 should do it.
If its still leaving a stain on the driveway, its probably red. The PS rack is anywhere from 200 on up, but some of the leak will be from the line on the crossmember. Thats 130, but the other section is 160, at its 25 years old, the metal tag in the line says so. Those two will make buying to 40 hose that hooks to the 25 dollar reservoir on one end, and the 10 fitting on the pump you'll reseal for 30, seem cheap. Crush washers are extra. Make sure to use the nice clamps, not the pepboys clamps. You wont need that many unless you want everything to look nice. Add 75 for clamps and you can do those cooling hoses, too!
Great news! You'll need alot of these items again in about 50,000 miles. The skill and knowledge gained will make it seem less painful the next time, but the parts prices will have gone up by then.
After some or all of these things are done, give John or David a call to order those mods to increase the horsepower to an initial level of performance that you'll find addicting....for a while.
Obviously this is a lame attempt at humor, mostly because it reminds me of what I've done and spent on a weekend driver.
Crap, I forgot bushings.....
Some of the stuff (WP, belts) you'll probably do right away, but thats only about 500 in parts. But while you're in there, order the 15 piece cooling hose kit. They're only about 150 or so.
Might as well do the cam housing gasket set so the headers dont smoke at stoplights, that'll be about 40 if if you catch it before fire consumes the car, which reminds me of the 3 fuel lines that should be replaced for about 150 or so, but you can sell the little pipe cutter to recover 1.50 The cap, rotor, wires, wires are already removed, so lets spend 250 on them. New intake gaskets will be cheap, but notice the old brittle vac lines and the venturi mess. Might as well get that leak at the AOS cleaned up with new seals, and dont forget the oring for the dipstick tube. Thats another 200 or more to get the intake bolted back on. Crap, the TPS reseal would fix that grime, do that too, but thats cheap. Oil cooler housing seal kit is only 40, but you could wait until it ruins your rod bearings to fix it, that way a new oil pan gasket could be installed. The front engine seal kit is much easier while the airbox, belts and WP are off, and its only 50 or so. Dont forget the thermostats, one is 15, one is 35. You'll need both. You'll notice the cycling valve is a broken joke, so get at least a manual boost controller and hook to the wastegate. Notice the wastegate is nasty, and searching the forum will tell you to order the Tial, Synapse, Lindsey. Thats gonna be 400, and you'll want to get the cat delete while all those fasteners are broken off. Thats only about 500, but make sure you get polished stainless for this item, since no one will ever see it, and it will need to outlast the AC compressor, which probably wont be working when you get the car, but the PO says it just needs a charge. A charge of new drier, new compressor, and possibly new hoses. They ARE 25 years old. It should blow cold for around 600 or so, if you do it all yourself. Dont forget ball joints and tie rod ends while its on the jackstands. The kit to fix the ball joints is 130 for a stocker and the install is fun, what with mixing epoxy and all. If you have $, get the new control arms with the joints installed. Tie rod ends are cheap and just like a ford. Rotors and pads are easy to do at this point, and if you get cheap zimmermanns you can do the front and backs for about 500, but the bearings and seal will push it closer to 600. The front struts are either worn or will be by now...so spend the 600 on them. If you're lucky (1986) you can use the koni inserts and drill/cut/paint your struts yellow, and it'll save about 200. The rear shocks are between 100 and 2000. If you want real handling, sell your M030 stuff on here and you can outsmart those german engineers by filling your wheel wells with 3000 or more of state of the art stuff. The 250 for chips will probably cause your clutch to fail. That'll cost 600-1200 if you do it all yourself, but it should get the car ready for 300HP, if a CV joint doesn't fail first. They're cheap, though. 200 should do it.
If its still leaving a stain on the driveway, its probably red. The PS rack is anywhere from 200 on up, but some of the leak will be from the line on the crossmember. Thats 130, but the other section is 160, at its 25 years old, the metal tag in the line says so. Those two will make buying to 40 hose that hooks to the 25 dollar reservoir on one end, and the 10 fitting on the pump you'll reseal for 30, seem cheap. Crush washers are extra. Make sure to use the nice clamps, not the pepboys clamps. You wont need that many unless you want everything to look nice. Add 75 for clamps and you can do those cooling hoses, too!
Great news! You'll need alot of these items again in about 50,000 miles. The skill and knowledge gained will make it seem less painful the next time, but the parts prices will have gone up by then.
After some or all of these things are done, give John or David a call to order those mods to increase the horsepower to an initial level of performance that you'll find addicting....for a while.
Obviously this is a lame attempt at humor, mostly because it reminds me of what I've done and spent on a weekend driver.
Crap, I forgot bushings.....
i hope thats some kind of sick joke....
I knew they were expensive to maintain but i didnt realize they would be this much work...I am mechanically inclined and my father has a shop so most work can be taken care of...Is everyone else 944 turbo experience similair to this? Ive seen many people have modded 944's and they seem to be working pretty well with them
01-11-2010, 12:32 AM
#22
Three Wheelin'
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I was you, except for the "how hard is it to make 450 HP". The first time I saw a 951 was the mid eighties. I memorized the magazine articles. The blonde on the hood pic sealed the deal. I was 21. I lusted for one. I finally scratched the itch to own one, two decades later, knowing it would need lovin. I actually love the car, love wrenching on it, and feel good each time I replace a worn or broken part. Tell you what, search this forum for "clutch" "head gasket" "bent valves" "timing belt" "water pump stud" "fire" "leak" "leaks" "leaking" "scored" "scoring" "sleeves" "struts" "shocks" "lifters" "mounts" and for good measure "sunroof gear" All cars need maintenance. This one is no exception.
You wanted to good and the bad. I'd love to tell you a lie about how my AFR's are perfect with my freshly built 3.0 engine that doesn't leak or need anything else. Just changed the break in oil and closed the hood for a 3000 mile run. I'm running 30lbs of boost and get 31 MPG enjoying ice cold AC all summer long... Fact is, my car is almost all stock, and thats good enough. I've gone slow on a tractor and fast in an F16. I drove a friends Z06 recently. Crazy fast, but next years model will be faster...
You wanted to good and the bad. I'd love to tell you a lie about how my AFR's are perfect with my freshly built 3.0 engine that doesn't leak or need anything else. Just changed the break in oil and closed the hood for a 3000 mile run. I'm running 30lbs of boost and get 31 MPG enjoying ice cold AC all summer long... Fact is, my car is almost all stock, and thats good enough. I've gone slow on a tractor and fast in an F16. I drove a friends Z06 recently. Crazy fast, but next years model will be faster...
01-11-2010, 10:55 AM
#23
I got bored after removing my oil cooler lines a little while ago, so I did a little shopping for some things you'll need in the first year or two.
Some of the stuff (WP, belts) you'll probably do right away, but thats only about 500 in parts. But while you're in there, order the 15 piece cooling hose kit. They're only about 150 or so.
Might as well do the cam housing gasket set so the headers dont smoke at stoplights, that'll be about 40 if if you catch it before fire consumes the car, which reminds me of the 3 fuel lines that should be replaced for about 150 or so, but you can sell the little pipe cutter to recover 1.50 The cap, rotor, wires, wires are already removed, so lets spend 250 on them. New intake gaskets will be cheap, but notice the old brittle vac lines and the venturi mess. Might as well get that leak at the AOS cleaned up with new seals, and dont forget the oring for the dipstick tube. Thats another 200 or more to get the intake bolted back on. Crap, the TPS reseal would fix that grime, do that too, but thats cheap. Oil cooler housing seal kit is only 40, but you could wait until it ruins your rod bearings to fix it, that way a new oil pan gasket could be installed. The front engine seal kit is much easier while the airbox, belts and WP are off, and its only 50 or so. Dont forget the thermostats, one is 15, one is 35. You'll need both. You'll notice the cycling valve is a broken joke, so get at least a manual boost controller and hook to the wastegate. Notice the wastegate is nasty, and searching the forum will tell you to order the Tial, Synapse, Lindsey. Thats gonna be 400, and you'll want to get the cat delete while all those fasteners are broken off. Thats only about 500, but make sure you get polished stainless for this item, since no one will ever see it, and it will need to outlast the AC compressor, which probably wont be working when you get the car, but the PO says it just needs a charge. A charge of new drier, new compressor, and possibly new hoses. They ARE 25 years old. It should blow cold for around 600 or so, if you do it all yourself. Dont forget ball joints and tie rod ends while its on the jackstands. The kit to fix the ball joints is 130 for a stocker and the install is fun, what with mixing epoxy and all. If you have $, get the new control arms with the joints installed. Tie rod ends are cheap and just like a ford. Rotors and pads are easy to do at this point, and if you get cheap zimmermanns you can do the front and backs for about 500, but the bearings and seal will push it closer to 600. The front struts are either worn or will be by now...so spend the 600 on them. If you're lucky (1986) you can use the koni inserts and drill/cut/paint your struts yellow, and it'll save about 200. The rear shocks are between 100 and 2000. If you want real handling, sell your M030 stuff on here and you can outsmart those german engineers by filling your wheel wells with 3000 or more of state of the art stuff. The 250 for chips will probably cause your clutch to fail. That'll cost 600-1200 if you do it all yourself, but it should get the car ready for 300HP, if a CV joint doesn't fail first. They're cheap, though. 200 should do it.
If its still leaving a stain on the driveway, its probably red. The PS rack is anywhere from 200 on up, but some of the leak will be from the line on the crossmember. Thats 130, but the other section is 160, at its 25 years old, the metal tag in the line says so. Those two will make buying to 40 hose that hooks to the 25 dollar reservoir on one end, and the 10 fitting on the pump you'll reseal for 30, seem cheap. Crush washers are extra. Make sure to use the nice clamps, not the pepboys clamps. You wont need that many unless you want everything to look nice. Add 75 for clamps and you can do those cooling hoses, too!
Great news! You'll need alot of these items again in about 50,000 miles. The skill and knowledge gained will make it seem less painful the next time, but the parts prices will have gone up by then.
After some or all of these things are done, give John or David a call to order those mods to increase the horsepower to an initial level of performance that you'll find addicting....for a while.
Obviously this is a lame attempt at humor, mostly because it reminds me of what I've done and spent on a weekend driver.
Crap, I forgot bushings.....
Some of the stuff (WP, belts) you'll probably do right away, but thats only about 500 in parts. But while you're in there, order the 15 piece cooling hose kit. They're only about 150 or so.
Might as well do the cam housing gasket set so the headers dont smoke at stoplights, that'll be about 40 if if you catch it before fire consumes the car, which reminds me of the 3 fuel lines that should be replaced for about 150 or so, but you can sell the little pipe cutter to recover 1.50 The cap, rotor, wires, wires are already removed, so lets spend 250 on them. New intake gaskets will be cheap, but notice the old brittle vac lines and the venturi mess. Might as well get that leak at the AOS cleaned up with new seals, and dont forget the oring for the dipstick tube. Thats another 200 or more to get the intake bolted back on. Crap, the TPS reseal would fix that grime, do that too, but thats cheap. Oil cooler housing seal kit is only 40, but you could wait until it ruins your rod bearings to fix it, that way a new oil pan gasket could be installed. The front engine seal kit is much easier while the airbox, belts and WP are off, and its only 50 or so. Dont forget the thermostats, one is 15, one is 35. You'll need both. You'll notice the cycling valve is a broken joke, so get at least a manual boost controller and hook to the wastegate. Notice the wastegate is nasty, and searching the forum will tell you to order the Tial, Synapse, Lindsey. Thats gonna be 400, and you'll want to get the cat delete while all those fasteners are broken off. Thats only about 500, but make sure you get polished stainless for this item, since no one will ever see it, and it will need to outlast the AC compressor, which probably wont be working when you get the car, but the PO says it just needs a charge. A charge of new drier, new compressor, and possibly new hoses. They ARE 25 years old. It should blow cold for around 600 or so, if you do it all yourself. Dont forget ball joints and tie rod ends while its on the jackstands. The kit to fix the ball joints is 130 for a stocker and the install is fun, what with mixing epoxy and all. If you have $, get the new control arms with the joints installed. Tie rod ends are cheap and just like a ford. Rotors and pads are easy to do at this point, and if you get cheap zimmermanns you can do the front and backs for about 500, but the bearings and seal will push it closer to 600. The front struts are either worn or will be by now...so spend the 600 on them. If you're lucky (1986) you can use the koni inserts and drill/cut/paint your struts yellow, and it'll save about 200. The rear shocks are between 100 and 2000. If you want real handling, sell your M030 stuff on here and you can outsmart those german engineers by filling your wheel wells with 3000 or more of state of the art stuff. The 250 for chips will probably cause your clutch to fail. That'll cost 600-1200 if you do it all yourself, but it should get the car ready for 300HP, if a CV joint doesn't fail first. They're cheap, though. 200 should do it.
If its still leaving a stain on the driveway, its probably red. The PS rack is anywhere from 200 on up, but some of the leak will be from the line on the crossmember. Thats 130, but the other section is 160, at its 25 years old, the metal tag in the line says so. Those two will make buying to 40 hose that hooks to the 25 dollar reservoir on one end, and the 10 fitting on the pump you'll reseal for 30, seem cheap. Crush washers are extra. Make sure to use the nice clamps, not the pepboys clamps. You wont need that many unless you want everything to look nice. Add 75 for clamps and you can do those cooling hoses, too!
Great news! You'll need alot of these items again in about 50,000 miles. The skill and knowledge gained will make it seem less painful the next time, but the parts prices will have gone up by then.
After some or all of these things are done, give John or David a call to order those mods to increase the horsepower to an initial level of performance that you'll find addicting....for a while.
Obviously this is a lame attempt at humor, mostly because it reminds me of what I've done and spent on a weekend driver.
Crap, I forgot bushings.....
OMG Tedro! LOL!!!
Soooooo true. So help me God, my wife will NEVER see your post!
01-11-2010, 11:05 AM
#24
i hope thats some kind of sick joke.... I knew they were expensive to maintain but i didnt realize they would be this much work...I am mechanically inclined and my father has a shop so most work can be taken care of...Is everyone else 944 turbo experience similair to this? Ive seen many people have modded 944's and they seem to be working pretty well with them
I knew they were expensive to maintain but i didnt realize they would be this much work...I am mechanically inclined and my father has a shop so most work can be taken care of...Is everyone else 944 turbo experience similair to this? Ive seen many people have modded 944's and they seem to be working pretty well with themThere are LOTS of "while you're in there" projects. If you're spending $1500 on "x", and the "while you're in there" only costs an extra $100, then you might as well do it. Because if you DON'T, and the "while you're in there" fails later, then you're gonna pay to do it ALL over again.
The slippery slope happens when the "while you're in there" projects add up. It's really up to you where you want to stop, and what risks and leaks you're willing to live with. And this is all before you add up the "go faster" fun parts that you WANT to add.
If you want to fool yourself into believing you've avoided all the usual little annoyances with these cars, then buy one that's already done. I know when I first posted up here that I was looking for one, a few different people PM'd me here with their examples that were for sale. Beautiful cars, great shape, all the maintenance done and solid, and some were pretty healthily modified. Had I been in the market to spend closer to $20k than the $9k I had initially set out to do, I would have jumped on one of several of them.
Ya know, I don't think it's been discussed here yet: what's your budget? That will help us set a more realistic expectation for you. If, for example, you're looking at $4,500 examples, and Tedro's post scares you - then just walk away now, because a cheap car will probably be exactly what Tedro described. If you're more in the $10k range, it won't be as bad.
Realize that there is no such thing as a "cheap Porsche." There are only ones that will cost you $10k+ to buy, and ones that will cost you $10k+ to fix.
01-11-2010, 11:48 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
I got bored after removing my oil cooler lines a little while ago, so I did a little shopping for some things you'll need in the first year or two.
Some of the stuff (WP, belts) you'll probably do right away, but thats only about 500 in parts. But while you're in there, order the 15 piece cooling hose kit. They're only about 150 or so.
Might as well do the cam housing gasket set so the headers dont smoke at stoplights, that'll be about 40 if if you catch it before fire consumes the car, which reminds me of the 3 fuel lines that should be replaced for about 150 or so, but you can sell the little pipe cutter to recover 1.50 The cap, rotor, wires, wires are already removed, so lets spend 250 on them. New intake gaskets will be cheap, but notice the old brittle vac lines and the venturi mess. Might as well get that leak at the AOS cleaned up with new seals, and dont forget the oring for the dipstick tube. Thats another 200 or more to get the intake bolted back on. Crap, the TPS reseal would fix that grime, do that too, but thats cheap. Oil cooler housing seal kit is only 40, but you could wait until it ruins your rod bearings to fix it, that way a new oil pan gasket could be installed. The front engine seal kit is much easier while the airbox, belts and WP are off, and its only 50 or so. Dont forget the thermostats, one is 15, one is 35. You'll need both. You'll notice the cycling valve is a broken joke, so get at least a manual boost controller and hook to the wastegate. Notice the wastegate is nasty, and searching the forum will tell you to order the Tial, Synapse, Lindsey. Thats gonna be 400, and you'll want to get the cat delete while all those fasteners are broken off. Thats only about 500, but make sure you get polished stainless for this item, since no one will ever see it, and it will need to outlast the AC compressor, which probably wont be working when you get the car, but the PO says it just needs a charge. A charge of new drier, new compressor, and possibly new hoses. They ARE 25 years old. It should blow cold for around 600 or so, if you do it all yourself. Dont forget ball joints and tie rod ends while its on the jackstands. The kit to fix the ball joints is 130 for a stocker and the install is fun, what with mixing epoxy and all. If you have $, get the new control arms with the joints installed. Tie rod ends are cheap and just like a ford. Rotors and pads are easy to do at this point, and if you get cheap zimmermanns you can do the front and backs for about 500, but the bearings and seal will push it closer to 600. The front struts are either worn or will be by now...so spend the 600 on them. If you're lucky (1986) you can use the koni inserts and drill/cut/paint your struts yellow, and it'll save about 200. The rear shocks are between 100 and 2000. If you want real handling, sell your M030 stuff on here and you can outsmart those german engineers by filling your wheel wells with 3000 or more of state of the art stuff. The 250 for chips will probably cause your clutch to fail. That'll cost 600-1200 if you do it all yourself, but it should get the car ready for 300HP, if a CV joint doesn't fail first. They're cheap, though. 200 should do it.
If its still leaving a stain on the driveway, its probably red. The PS rack is anywhere from 200 on up, but some of the leak will be from the line on the crossmember. Thats 130, but the other section is 160, at its 25 years old, the metal tag in the line says so. Those two will make buying to 40 hose that hooks to the 25 dollar reservoir on one end, and the 10 fitting on the pump you'll reseal for 30, seem cheap. Crush washers are extra. Make sure to use the nice clamps, not the pepboys clamps. You wont need that many unless you want everything to look nice. Add 75 for clamps and you can do those cooling hoses, too!
Great news! You'll need alot of these items again in about 50,000 miles. The skill and knowledge gained will make it seem less painful the next time, but the parts prices will have gone up by then.
After some or all of these things are done, give John or David a call to order those mods to increase the horsepower to an initial level of performance that you'll find addicting....for a while.
Obviously this is a lame attempt at humor, mostly because it reminds me of what I've done and spent on a weekend driver.
Crap, I forgot bushings.....
Some of the stuff (WP, belts) you'll probably do right away, but thats only about 500 in parts. But while you're in there, order the 15 piece cooling hose kit. They're only about 150 or so.
Might as well do the cam housing gasket set so the headers dont smoke at stoplights, that'll be about 40 if if you catch it before fire consumes the car, which reminds me of the 3 fuel lines that should be replaced for about 150 or so, but you can sell the little pipe cutter to recover 1.50 The cap, rotor, wires, wires are already removed, so lets spend 250 on them. New intake gaskets will be cheap, but notice the old brittle vac lines and the venturi mess. Might as well get that leak at the AOS cleaned up with new seals, and dont forget the oring for the dipstick tube. Thats another 200 or more to get the intake bolted back on. Crap, the TPS reseal would fix that grime, do that too, but thats cheap. Oil cooler housing seal kit is only 40, but you could wait until it ruins your rod bearings to fix it, that way a new oil pan gasket could be installed. The front engine seal kit is much easier while the airbox, belts and WP are off, and its only 50 or so. Dont forget the thermostats, one is 15, one is 35. You'll need both. You'll notice the cycling valve is a broken joke, so get at least a manual boost controller and hook to the wastegate. Notice the wastegate is nasty, and searching the forum will tell you to order the Tial, Synapse, Lindsey. Thats gonna be 400, and you'll want to get the cat delete while all those fasteners are broken off. Thats only about 500, but make sure you get polished stainless for this item, since no one will ever see it, and it will need to outlast the AC compressor, which probably wont be working when you get the car, but the PO says it just needs a charge. A charge of new drier, new compressor, and possibly new hoses. They ARE 25 years old. It should blow cold for around 600 or so, if you do it all yourself. Dont forget ball joints and tie rod ends while its on the jackstands. The kit to fix the ball joints is 130 for a stocker and the install is fun, what with mixing epoxy and all. If you have $, get the new control arms with the joints installed. Tie rod ends are cheap and just like a ford. Rotors and pads are easy to do at this point, and if you get cheap zimmermanns you can do the front and backs for about 500, but the bearings and seal will push it closer to 600. The front struts are either worn or will be by now...so spend the 600 on them. If you're lucky (1986) you can use the koni inserts and drill/cut/paint your struts yellow, and it'll save about 200. The rear shocks are between 100 and 2000. If you want real handling, sell your M030 stuff on here and you can outsmart those german engineers by filling your wheel wells with 3000 or more of state of the art stuff. The 250 for chips will probably cause your clutch to fail. That'll cost 600-1200 if you do it all yourself, but it should get the car ready for 300HP, if a CV joint doesn't fail first. They're cheap, though. 200 should do it.
If its still leaving a stain on the driveway, its probably red. The PS rack is anywhere from 200 on up, but some of the leak will be from the line on the crossmember. Thats 130, but the other section is 160, at its 25 years old, the metal tag in the line says so. Those two will make buying to 40 hose that hooks to the 25 dollar reservoir on one end, and the 10 fitting on the pump you'll reseal for 30, seem cheap. Crush washers are extra. Make sure to use the nice clamps, not the pepboys clamps. You wont need that many unless you want everything to look nice. Add 75 for clamps and you can do those cooling hoses, too!
Great news! You'll need alot of these items again in about 50,000 miles. The skill and knowledge gained will make it seem less painful the next time, but the parts prices will have gone up by then.
After some or all of these things are done, give John or David a call to order those mods to increase the horsepower to an initial level of performance that you'll find addicting....for a while.
Obviously this is a lame attempt at humor, mostly because it reminds me of what I've done and spent on a weekend driver.
Crap, I forgot bushings.....
01-11-2010, 12:39 PM
#26
7th Gear
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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The cars I'm looking at are in the 5,000 to 7,000 range and almost all of them have documention of recenent repairs such as clutch and fluids changed and a bunch of otherthinhs. They all seem to be in good shape and a decent starter car. After all the maintence I'm now less woroed about going fast if it means fixing the car everyday
01-11-2010, 12:55 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
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Sounds like you're all set. Welcome aboard!
Yep, engine mounts are easy, too. Not that it matters financially, but hood and hatch struts should go on the list. A glove box repair kit and arm rest fix are good, and wont take up much room in the box from vendor. The underhood insulation will probably be in good shape on a 5-7K car, but if not, they're easy to install for about $100. Taking whats left of the old insulation out is free!
That leads me to the question you forgot to ask. What can be done for free to improve our beloved 951... to be continued...
Yep, engine mounts are easy, too. Not that it matters financially, but hood and hatch struts should go on the list. A glove box repair kit and arm rest fix are good, and wont take up much room in the box from vendor. The underhood insulation will probably be in good shape on a 5-7K car, but if not, they're easy to install for about $100. Taking whats left of the old insulation out is free!
That leads me to the question you forgot to ask. What can be done for free to improve our beloved 951... to be continued...
01-11-2010, 01:26 PM
#28
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Careful
The cold reality is that a cheap 951 is likely to need to be fed a lot of money.
I have bought cars that did not really seem to need anything at time of purchase that still ate up $1k in catch-up maintenance.
Some quick math:
$7000 - decent used 951
$2000-$3000 - catch-up maintenance
$2000-$5000 - mods (or more if that's your thing)
$1000-$3000 - per year for maintenance and repairs (more if you blow a motor.)
That's $12000-$18000 after a year or so of ownership. If those are scary numbers consider a cheaper hobby. There are going to be people who can say you can do it for less and that is somewhat possible if you are a scrounger/fabricator and or you get into parts cars or something but that's a lot of work.
Getting a 951 is like getting a puppy. It's not the cost of the puppy that is the big concern. It's the food, chewed-up belongings, vet bills, and the lifestyle changes that having a puppy requires that really impact your life.
-Joel.
The cold reality is that a cheap 951 is likely to need to be fed a lot of money.
I have bought cars that did not really seem to need anything at time of purchase that still ate up $1k in catch-up maintenance.
Some quick math:
$7000 - decent used 951
$2000-$3000 - catch-up maintenance
$2000-$5000 - mods (or more if that's your thing)
$1000-$3000 - per year for maintenance and repairs (more if you blow a motor.)
That's $12000-$18000 after a year or so of ownership. If those are scary numbers consider a cheaper hobby. There are going to be people who can say you can do it for less and that is somewhat possible if you are a scrounger/fabricator and or you get into parts cars or something but that's a lot of work.
Getting a 951 is like getting a puppy. It's not the cost of the puppy that is the big concern. It's the food, chewed-up belongings, vet bills, and the lifestyle changes that having a puppy requires that really impact your life.
-Joel.
01-11-2010, 03:27 PM
#29
If your picky about your goals it will cost you a lot. We are paying maintenance for a has been hero super car from the 80s + upgrades to standardize it for most to low end super cars these days.
Japaniese=cheaper+fast
German=racing history and engineering for most and ok reliability
As a fellow lister posted in another section Turbo S
01-11-2010, 04:03 PM
#30
Three Wheelin'
Well on a lighter note glove box hinges was mentioned. I'll add sun visor clips, arm rest hinge, and the seat back latch, just buy a batch and keep them handy.