944 Advice
01-11-2010, 04:14 PM
#31
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I got bored after removing my oil cooler lines a little while ago, so I did a little shopping for some things you'll need in the first year or two.
Some of the stuff (WP, belts) you'll probably do right away, but thats only about 500 in parts. But while you're in there, order the 15 piece cooling hose kit. They're only about 150 or so.
Might as well do the cam housing gasket set so the headers dont smoke at stoplights, that'll be about 40 if if you catch it before fire consumes the car, which reminds me of the 3 fuel lines that should be replaced for about 150 or so, but you can sell the little pipe cutter to recover 1.50 The cap, rotor, wires, wires are already removed, so lets spend 250 on them. New intake gaskets will be cheap, but notice the old brittle vac lines and the venturi mess. Might as well get that leak at the AOS cleaned up with new seals, and dont forget the oring for the dipstick tube. Thats another 200 or more to get the intake bolted back on. Crap, the TPS reseal would fix that grime, do that too, but thats cheap. Oil cooler housing seal kit is only 40, but you could wait until it ruins your rod bearings to fix it, that way a new oil pan gasket could be installed. The front engine seal kit is much easier while the airbox, belts and WP are off, and its only 50 or so. Dont forget the thermostats, one is 15, one is 35. You'll need both. You'll notice the cycling valve is a broken joke, so get at least a manual boost controller and hook to the wastegate. Notice the wastegate is nasty, and searching the forum will tell you to order the Tial, Synapse, Lindsey. Thats gonna be 400, and you'll want to get the cat delete while all those fasteners are broken off. Thats only about 500, but make sure you get polished stainless for this item, since no one will ever see it, and it will need to outlast the AC compressor, which probably wont be working when you get the car, but the PO says it just needs a charge. A charge of new drier, new compressor, and possibly new hoses. They ARE 25 years old. It should blow cold for around 600 or so, if you do it all yourself. Dont forget ball joints and tie rod ends while its on the jackstands. The kit to fix the ball joints is 130 for a stocker and the install is fun, what with mixing epoxy and all. If you have $, get the new control arms with the joints installed. Tie rod ends are cheap and just like a ford. Rotors and pads are easy to do at this point, and if you get cheap zimmermanns you can do the front and backs for about 500, but the bearings and seal will push it closer to 600. The front struts are either worn or will be by now...so spend the 600 on them. If you're lucky (1986) you can use the koni inserts and drill/cut/paint your struts yellow, and it'll save about 200. The rear shocks are between 100 and 2000. If you want real handling, sell your M030 stuff on here and you can outsmart those german engineers by filling your wheel wells with 3000 or more of state of the art stuff. The 250 for chips will probably cause your clutch to fail. That'll cost 600-1200 if you do it all yourself, but it should get the car ready for 300HP, if a CV joint doesn't fail first. They're cheap, though. 200 should do it.
If its still leaving a stain on the driveway, its probably red. The PS rack is anywhere from 200 on up, but some of the leak will be from the line on the crossmember. Thats 130, but the other section is 160, at its 25 years old, the metal tag in the line says so. Those two will make buying to 40 hose that hooks to the 25 dollar reservoir on one end, and the 10 fitting on the pump you'll reseal for 30, seem cheap. Crush washers are extra. Make sure to use the nice clamps, not the pepboys clamps. You wont need that many unless you want everything to look nice. Add 75 for clamps and you can do those cooling hoses, too!
Great news! You'll need alot of these items again in about 50,000 miles. The skill and knowledge gained will make it seem less painful the next time, but the parts prices will have gone up by then.
After some or all of these things are done, give John or David a call to order those mods to increase the horsepower to an initial level of performance that you'll find addicting....for a while.
Obviously this is a lame attempt at humor, mostly because it reminds me of what I've done and spent on a weekend driver.
Crap, I forgot bushings.....
Some of the stuff (WP, belts) you'll probably do right away, but thats only about 500 in parts. But while you're in there, order the 15 piece cooling hose kit. They're only about 150 or so.
Might as well do the cam housing gasket set so the headers dont smoke at stoplights, that'll be about 40 if if you catch it before fire consumes the car, which reminds me of the 3 fuel lines that should be replaced for about 150 or so, but you can sell the little pipe cutter to recover 1.50 The cap, rotor, wires, wires are already removed, so lets spend 250 on them. New intake gaskets will be cheap, but notice the old brittle vac lines and the venturi mess. Might as well get that leak at the AOS cleaned up with new seals, and dont forget the oring for the dipstick tube. Thats another 200 or more to get the intake bolted back on. Crap, the TPS reseal would fix that grime, do that too, but thats cheap. Oil cooler housing seal kit is only 40, but you could wait until it ruins your rod bearings to fix it, that way a new oil pan gasket could be installed. The front engine seal kit is much easier while the airbox, belts and WP are off, and its only 50 or so. Dont forget the thermostats, one is 15, one is 35. You'll need both. You'll notice the cycling valve is a broken joke, so get at least a manual boost controller and hook to the wastegate. Notice the wastegate is nasty, and searching the forum will tell you to order the Tial, Synapse, Lindsey. Thats gonna be 400, and you'll want to get the cat delete while all those fasteners are broken off. Thats only about 500, but make sure you get polished stainless for this item, since no one will ever see it, and it will need to outlast the AC compressor, which probably wont be working when you get the car, but the PO says it just needs a charge. A charge of new drier, new compressor, and possibly new hoses. They ARE 25 years old. It should blow cold for around 600 or so, if you do it all yourself. Dont forget ball joints and tie rod ends while its on the jackstands. The kit to fix the ball joints is 130 for a stocker and the install is fun, what with mixing epoxy and all. If you have $, get the new control arms with the joints installed. Tie rod ends are cheap and just like a ford. Rotors and pads are easy to do at this point, and if you get cheap zimmermanns you can do the front and backs for about 500, but the bearings and seal will push it closer to 600. The front struts are either worn or will be by now...so spend the 600 on them. If you're lucky (1986) you can use the koni inserts and drill/cut/paint your struts yellow, and it'll save about 200. The rear shocks are between 100 and 2000. If you want real handling, sell your M030 stuff on here and you can outsmart those german engineers by filling your wheel wells with 3000 or more of state of the art stuff. The 250 for chips will probably cause your clutch to fail. That'll cost 600-1200 if you do it all yourself, but it should get the car ready for 300HP, if a CV joint doesn't fail first. They're cheap, though. 200 should do it.
If its still leaving a stain on the driveway, its probably red. The PS rack is anywhere from 200 on up, but some of the leak will be from the line on the crossmember. Thats 130, but the other section is 160, at its 25 years old, the metal tag in the line says so. Those two will make buying to 40 hose that hooks to the 25 dollar reservoir on one end, and the 10 fitting on the pump you'll reseal for 30, seem cheap. Crush washers are extra. Make sure to use the nice clamps, not the pepboys clamps. You wont need that many unless you want everything to look nice. Add 75 for clamps and you can do those cooling hoses, too!
Great news! You'll need alot of these items again in about 50,000 miles. The skill and knowledge gained will make it seem less painful the next time, but the parts prices will have gone up by then.
After some or all of these things are done, give John or David a call to order those mods to increase the horsepower to an initial level of performance that you'll find addicting....for a while.
Obviously this is a lame attempt at humor, mostly because it reminds me of what I've done and spent on a weekend driver.
Crap, I forgot bushings.....
Wow, as i read through that I was making a checklist in my mind... been there done that, and then some.
Don't let all that scare you. If you are willing to work on the car yourself, and don't rely on it as daily transportation, it's not so bad.I think it's a shame when people buy these cars for $3K, abuse the hell out of them, then get on here and complain about how unreliable and expensive to own they are. Tedro's post just outlines some of the reality to owning one of these cars.
I bought mine almost 8 years ago, and I have done all those things and then some, and been down the heavy modification road as well. When I started modding, I had 50,000 miles on the car. Bigger turbo, exhaust, suspension, fuel management, etc. etc. Now with 98,000 on the clock it's still extremely reliable. Maintenance is the key. I maintain mine to 100% all the time. If it's broken, I don't drive it until it can be fixed right. When they are let go, things start compounding and you end up with a real mess.
There are some excellent deals out there right now, so finding a car shouldn't be too difficult. If you plan on modifying it, I would recommend not buying a turbo S. Once you modify it, it's not special anymore, so why pay the premium? One could argue the brakes, suspension, etc, are worth it. In reality when these cars crest the 325-350 HP range, those become inadequate as well if you push really hard. For street duty, the stock parts do just fine.
Just my .02
Good luck with the search, once you get addicted to boost, there's no turning back
01-11-2010, 04:18 PM
#32
Freedom Enthusiast
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Budget $10,000 for the car and initial maintenance.
I've had mine for two years and it has been very reliable. I drive it hard.
tedro was not kidding if you do all the "while I'm in there" stuff.
I've had mine for two years and it has been very reliable. I drive it hard.
tedro was not kidding if you do all the "while I'm in there" stuff.
01-11-2010, 04:37 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Look at my other post on when to throw in the towel. Keep in mind, I wasnt investing in a car, i already had the car.
Clutch parts: $850 disc and PP, $125 clutch fork, $400 flywheel.
The front seal is leaking, oil pan is leaking.
I am paying for labor. About 33-35 hours.
Plus Vitesse upgrade.
But keep in mind it will be a nice car. You wont get a 951 with $20k in it for $5-7K. Expect, i would say realistically $10K-12K for an acceptable example. Just decide if you want to buy it finished or completed. The more you spend, the nice car you will get.
-Dana
Clutch parts: $850 disc and PP, $125 clutch fork, $400 flywheel.
The front seal is leaking, oil pan is leaking.
I am paying for labor. About 33-35 hours.
Plus Vitesse upgrade.
But keep in mind it will be a nice car. You wont get a 951 with $20k in it for $5-7K. Expect, i would say realistically $10K-12K for an acceptable example. Just decide if you want to buy it finished or completed. The more you spend, the nice car you will get.
-Dana
01-11-2010, 04:39 PM
#34
Intermediate
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: RI
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There's a chance that the initial layout might be a bit less for a well sorted car given the current economic woes, though that may depend more on locality and how you define "well sorted". I dropped $5500 on an '86 951 with a full service history and 9/10 mechanically and cosmetically, stock but for an upgraded clutch. This was 7 months ago. After a new oil pan gasket, bearing replacement on all 4 wheels, new break pads and wires/cap/rotor tune up .... I'm probably at a little over $8k for a car that is 7 months in and a daily driver. If you can do most of the work yourself (or at cut rate in your father's shop) then you are in a good position. When I did the bearings, the 4th one cost more than the other 3 combined because I broke the slide hammer I was using and just had the shop do it ... and that was with supplying the parts!!
I like how it is running now and do not regret the decision, though I hate to boast that much for fear of karmic revenge. Don't want to make the Porsche gods angry.
I like how it is running now and do not regret the decision, though I hate to boast that much for fear of karmic revenge. Don't want to make the Porsche gods angry.
01-11-2010, 04:41 PM
#35
I'll add my 2 cents to this, for what it's worth. I have owned my '86 for about 18 months. Got a steal on it for less that $5000 on a one owner 104K mile car that was obviously went from a daily driver when new to a track car over the past several years. No documentation on anything that was done except for the recent oil change sticker on the windsheild showing that the oil needed to be changed in 2005 at 107k miles. I bought it at the end of October of 2008 with 104K on it...so it had been sitting with very few miles put on it over 4 years. Anyway, I have put over $5000 into it since I've owned it just maintaining it (even though most of that was for an A/C system rebuild and performance brake parts-new powder coated cross drilled and slotted Zimmermans with EBC Yellowstuff pads that have yet to be installed). It is currently in the garage where it has been for 6 months due to fuel problem that I haven't sorted out yet due to lack of time and refusal to have it done at a shop. I'm not trying to scare you away, but you WILL have to put money into one that you WON'T get back out of it monetarily, but what you will get out of it will be tons of enjoyment! I wouldn't trade mine for any newer Honda, Nissan, Mustang or pretty much anything else that would be cheaper or easier to work on and maintain. The smile my car puts on my face every time I drive it is worth every penny I have put into it...and it's pretty much stock as far as the engine goes!!! Amazing cars to drive, which is what they were made for.
01-15-2010, 01:26 PM
#37
Three Wheelin'
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If he drives one he's screwed! I didn't mean to scare him too badly with that little tale, but his initial questions were ridiculous for some even toying with the idea of becoming a caretaker to one of these historical cars, especially at his entry price. I'm older and wiser now, but if I'd owned one of these 15 years ago, I would have driven it until it bent valves, then sold for cheap. I have no idea what the numbers are, but I'll bet every week there is a 951 being towed off to a salvage yard because of bent valves.
01-15-2010, 01:30 PM
#38
Well on one hand, I hope we didn't scare him away. But on the other, we may have saved one car from eventual certain death.
Tedro - same here. I would have destroyed one if I bought one of these 15 years ago. Or at a minimum, driven my dad nuts, requiring his constant help with the maintenance.
These cars aren't "cheap" despite their low purchase prices.
Tedro - same here. I would have destroyed one if I bought one of these 15 years ago. Or at a minimum, driven my dad nuts, requiring his constant help with the maintenance.
These cars aren't "cheap" despite their low purchase prices.
