WTB: Big Blacks or Big Reds (BOUGHT)
#16
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Thread Starter
#17
Race Director
Big blacks/reds will clear your 17's but not 16's. Thee 928s4/turbo s setup will work with 16's as well.
95ONE - you may be correct but I know lindsey sells the rotor hats for both early and late offset and they carry different part numbers so I think they are needed.
95ONE - you may be correct but I know lindsey sells the rotor hats for both early and late offset and they carry different part numbers so I think they are needed.
#18
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
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in that case, you will need 928 GTS rotors to facilitate longer rotor "life span" that solid/slotted rotors offer. Pelican parts has them, from Zimmerman solid/non-slotted, but they cost a penny...
the stock slotted, 928GTS rotors are available at Sunset Porsche [west coast], Suncoast Porsche [east coast].
This rotor will work fine with either big red or big black calipers.
as I was mentioning earlier... the 928 S4 rotors are very good but not as large as the big blacks.
You need the bias valve or you won't get any power to your rear brakes.
the stock slotted, 928GTS rotors are available at Sunset Porsche [west coast], Suncoast Porsche [east coast].
This rotor will work fine with either big red or big black calipers.
as I was mentioning earlier... the 928 S4 rotors are very good but not as large as the big blacks.
You need the bias valve or you won't get any power to your rear brakes.
#19
Ok, so Brian is saying what I thought was the case. Big black calipers are the same as big reds, just painted diferent color. I also thought the 944 turbo S came with "big black" calipers and cross drilled rotors. I think what I want is basically the turbo S setup, but with non-drilled rotors. Are the 993 turbo or 928 S4 rotors bigger diameter than the 944 turbo S rotors? If so, might I have problems fitting inside my 17" wheels?
I know I need to put in the 5/33 proportioning valve to increase rear brake pressure.
I know I need to put in the 5/33 proportioning valve to increase rear brake pressure.
http://www.lindseyracing.com/LR/Parts/944BRAKECOMP.html
In one piece rotors you have the:
911 C2 3.6 turbo
928 GTS rotor
In two piece (need to purchase a hat)
993tt rotors
If you still have the 86 offset hubs, I would strongly recommend you swap to the 87-88 offset hubs. For the upgrade you are doing, I would go to the big blacks vs the 951S to get the bigger rotor which will reduce heat fade and extend pad life. The rotor diameter on the S4 / 951S is 304mm
#20
I have a set of calipers front and rear from an 88 Turbo S if you are interested. If you buy the calipers you can have the rotors free (only extra shipping cost for 68lbs of rotor). The front rotors are so good I didn't have to back off the pads to remove the calipers, the rears have a slight ridge.
#21
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Thread Starter
I need to go with the big blacks or big reds, not turbo S calipers. I'm not only doing this for heat capacity/dissipation, but also for the larger piston diameters, which will help brake pedal effort when I get rid of the brake booster. (Going manual brakes to make room for the LS1.)
#22
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VT,
Make no mistake on this point, You ABSOLUTELY need to keep your power brakes.
You can fabricate a hydrolic-assist via your ps...
Then, you'll have the braking force you need thanks to the big brake upgrade you're already doing...
here's just one example... doing yours will be easier.
http://www.off-road.com/trucks4x4/ar....jsp?id=264070
./
Make no mistake on this point, You ABSOLUTELY need to keep your power brakes.
You can fabricate a hydrolic-assist via your ps...
Then, you'll have the braking force you need thanks to the big brake upgrade you're already doing...
here's just one example... doing yours will be easier.
http://www.off-road.com/trucks4x4/ar....jsp?id=264070
./
#23
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Thread Starter
odurandina,
I appreciate your concern, but I have done some research on hydroboost and also talked with guys that have done manual brakes on these cars. Manual brakes supposedly work very well if you go with the big reds/blacks and 5/33 proportioning valve. You can also move the brake pedal linkage up a little bit to give more leverage. I am going to start with that and see how it feels. If I don't like it, I will either add hydroboost or go to a dual master cylinder setup.
I appreciate your concern, but I have done some research on hydroboost and also talked with guys that have done manual brakes on these cars. Manual brakes supposedly work very well if you go with the big reds/blacks and 5/33 proportioning valve. You can also move the brake pedal linkage up a little bit to give more leverage. I am going to start with that and see how it feels. If I don't like it, I will either add hydroboost or go to a dual master cylinder setup.
Last edited by vt951; 11-15-2009 at 06:17 PM.
#24
I need to go with the big blacks or big reds, not turbo S calipers. I'm not only doing this for heat capacity/dissipation, but also for the larger piston diameters, which will help brake pedal effort when I get rid of the brake booster. (Going manual brakes to make room for the LS1.)
The 1986 944T have 36/38mm pistons, later 944T cars have 36/40mm pistons. The 951S have Big Red sized pistons in a 993 frame with 36/44mm pistons with a 304mm rotor.
#25
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Thread Starter
Brian,
Thanks for your help. Are you saying that the 951S calipers are the same as Big Blacks, or just that the piston sizes are the same? I think what you're saying is the latter, and that the caliper frames are different so that they fit around larger rotors. But, in any case, I will get the same brake clamping force regardless of whether I go with 951S or Big Blacks/Reds. The difference would be the heat dissipation and lower wear rate of the Big Blacks/Reds. Is this right?
Alan
Thanks for your help. Are you saying that the 951S calipers are the same as Big Blacks, or just that the piston sizes are the same? I think what you're saying is the latter, and that the caliper frames are different so that they fit around larger rotors. But, in any case, I will get the same brake clamping force regardless of whether I go with 951S or Big Blacks/Reds. The difference would be the heat dissipation and lower wear rate of the Big Blacks/Reds. Is this right?
Alan
#26
Rennlist Member
I have a couple of sets of Brand New Original Porsche "Big Black" calipers, with bolts and Original Porsche solid rotors and dampers. One of the sets is here in Phoenix, somewhere in a pile of new parts purchased as back-up parts for my 91 GT track car and another car I'm building. I'm keeping them. The others are at my house in Lake Tahoe, but can be sent out within a week or so. The full set-calipers, bolts, rotors, and dampers are $1,305, plus shipping. If interested, E-MAIL me at aspkiller@***.net. Don't PM.
The dampers are Original Porsche and are 44mm and 36mm.
The rotors are 322mm.
The dampers are Original Porsche and are 44mm and 36mm.
The rotors are 322mm.
Last edited by Aspkiller; 11-16-2009 at 03:43 PM. Reason: Update
#27
I missed what year his car was? I see references to an '86, but I can't find where he actually says itImportant since that may limit rotor options. And In one of his posts, it seems he thought the $218 quote was for new calipers. Which was, of course, for used.
#28
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Thread Starter
95ONE... I assume you mean me? My car is an '86. I'm buying a set of 968 hubs and spindles as well, mainly for safety reasons (heavier duty spindles), but also so the GTS rotors will fit over the hubs.
Btw, you can actually use '86 hubs if you turn them down slightly. You just slip the rotors over the outside of the hubs, and they are sandwiched between the wheel and hub like late cars. I think you lose about 3/16" of lug length, but for most wheels that's probably not a problem.
Btw, you can actually use '86 hubs if you turn them down slightly. You just slip the rotors over the outside of the hubs, and they are sandwiched between the wheel and hub like late cars. I think you lose about 3/16" of lug length, but for most wheels that's probably not a problem.
#29
Yes sir. ok, so you're aware of the needs of different rptor/spindle combo. Interesting though,I hope you aren't speaking of Matts 968 hubs/spindles he just posted! I scooped those up & paid as soon as posted! lol.
#30
Rennlist Member
944 TURBO S = 'Medium Blacks' aka S4 calipers. '86 951 = 'Small Blacks'.
GTS = 'Big Blacks'.
GTS = 'Big Blacks'.