mtnman82

I'm going to post on a miata forum too, if I can figure out a good one (googling turned up a few)...

My eldest has her learning permit and the wife keeps bugging me about different cars for her. There's a miata that popped up locally (told her we'd keep it for ourselves after the kids move on) and she hasn't said 'no' to the idea - actually went by and got the info this morning.

It's a '97 w/~85k miles and they're asking $6k. I believe the body style changed in '98? I'm wondering which is more desirable - newer or older body style & uf there are any other significant changes over the years? Seems to be in decent shape (but is more than we were planning on spending)... Can anyone school me a bit?

ritzblitz

The older ones look a lot cooler I think.

There's NA, NB, and now NC miatas. NA are the pop up lights and came with a 1.6l or a 1.8l. The NB is the fixed lights and the NC are the newest ones.

Id take the NA since its the lightest and most interesting to look at. 6k doesnt seem too bad.

Reimu

NA is the lightest and most pure.. NB would probably make a better girl's car

Swagger93

My family owns a 1994 M-Edition and I have a good friend with a 2001 NB. LSD is a hugely valuable option like any other car really. The NA has a lot more cowl shake and is less stiff than the NB. The added power in the NB seems drastic, moreso than the numbers would suggest.

The reliability is ABSURD. Our 1994 probably has something like 200 redline clutch dumps by yours truly (to initiate standing powerslides and lower my IQ) and lots of hard cornering/braking/rip shifting on all-factory-installed suspension and drivetrain and it's got about 80k on it now. I've had to replace the spark plug wires. That is it. They're very common failure, sometimes as frequent as 20k.

1994 is considered by some the best year because it has an oil pressure gauge. I'm serious about that. It also has the 1.8L and a torsen was the optional LSD rather than clutch packs. The 1995 had a few more HP in its 1.8L vs. the 1994, but apparently the oil pressure gauge is more valuble.

Very early cars had a problem with a crank bearing or something in the motor due to a design flaw in the 1.6L. Caused some to fail with very low miles. I believe all Mazda did was patch it to make it less likely in later 1.6Ls. The 1.8 is strong but the clutch will not accept any more real power (you can put all the make-believe chips and 'cold-air intake' stuff you want in there, however) than stock. Some owners feel the 1.6 is the better motor to turbocharge, why I don't recall, particularly considering the crank issue.

The transmissions have about the best throw and feel of any stock shifter on the planet but the syncros are finicky and VERY sensitive to ambient temperature, fluid viscosity and friction modifiers. When sun is baking the road ours shifts like a dream (with Redline MT90) When it's not or if it's cold it is very slow in all gears. It has been this way since we obtained it (preceding any of my abuse), and it's a known problem. I've tried lots of different fluids and friction modifiers, you either get it to shift well hot or cold, but not both. The NB is better than the NA (my friend's 2001 is excellent for some reason), and the 6 speed is the best. You can check it out on the Miata message boards. Some attribute it to manufacturing inconsistencies, others say parts were sourced from varying places.

My friend gets a lot more of the "chicks car/dude's gay" remarks in his NB than I do in my family's NA. The NA looks like a Lotus Elan, the NB doesn't, so less were purchased during a 45-year-old's midlife crisis.

People say the NA is lighter, and more "pure," but don't be fooled, they're almost the same car improvements aside. Really, the things they improved only made the car better rather than compromise driving quality for more gizmos and "refinement." Many changes that make for a quicker, more responsive car (unibody bracing/altered rear suspension geometry/variable length intake/blah blah) and it feels quite a bit less buzzy and doesn't as much have the feeling that reminds you it doesn't have a roof for chassis bracing.

Personally, I've never viewed the Miata as a chick's car. It's a purist's close-ratio, rear-wheel-drive sports car that can reward you or bite you in the *** like any other real sports car when you make driving mistakes or the conditions are crappy. Chicks who are used to autobox fwd Celicas with floppy suspension and stuff might find some surprises. One of my girlfriends hated the car because it was so rough on city streets.

Euro951

Good info above, The early NA 1.6 liters (1990's) had the short nose crank which gets a bad rap. Late 1990's 1991 cars have a long nose crank. I had a 1990 short nose crank and when I installed a new timing belt I made sure to replace the keyway and also installed a new front crankbolt. A little loctite and the correct torque and I never had a problem with it. I autocrossed that car for 3 years with absolutely no failures. I loved the 1.6l with just a header, exhaust, and intake. My brother has owned a 1994 R package Miata since new. It is also a great car but feels different with the 1.8l engine. The biggest difference is torque.... Both of our cars have done the 1/4 mile just for kicks and my 1.6l with bolt on mods and 15' wheel/tire package did a 16.5 quarter mile without a problem. My brothers R package did low 16's with just a cat back. My impressions are that a good running 1.6l will run with a 1.8l car.

Overall the NA and NB cars are pretty much the same car. Just some minor bodywork changes and subframe changes. A NB front and rear subframe will bolt right into a NA car..... Thats how close these cars are to being the same. Later NB cars came with minor engine improvements such as varibal valve timing ect... but All produced close to the same power. The 1999 cars with solid lifters is considered to have the best cylinder head/ engine. One thing to keep in mind is that even though later cars seem more appealing because of HP ratings they needed the HP increase because of weight gain. A big starting plus with NB's is the increased suspension travel mainly because of the strut tops (mounts). On my NA I had NB strut mounts which gave me a significant ride/ handling improvement. So in retrospect I would probably get a NA car for auto X/ track work and do NB stut tops again. The NB cars are super cabable but I prefer early NA cars.

By the way, get the suspension right on a Miata and enjoy unreal handling, My car was routinely one of the quickest cars at the Auto X which was quite humbling to others with expensive machinery.... Good Luck

whakiewes

Give you a run-down going from a 968 to a supercharged 95' Miata M-Edition. It is most definantly a drivers car, meaning that you get direct feedback in every aspect of the car. The toploader transmission feels different hot vs. cold, if your control arm bushings are wearing out, you feel it through the brake pedal and steering wheel, etc...Like pre-2000 Porsches, the A/C isn't the greatest, and all the controls are very elementary. The cars from 94-97 are pretty much the same, 1.8L engine, larger brakes, few interior differences, etc...The M-Edition's typically hold their value better, as do 1997 STO versions and 90-93 R-Package cars. The M-Edition got leather seats in a 'camel' color (same as Porsche's Tan), torsen LSD, different wheels (5-spokes in 94' and 96', BBS mesh's in 95'), wood trim, door seals, and limited edition colors. The 97' STO version is the same, but the M-Edition got dropped - all options the same pretty much as the 96' M-Edition.

The car is weird - its overly stiff considering how flimsy the chassis is. For instance, on inclines taken at an angle to avoid scraping, I can watch my windshield seals flex. A roll bar makes a huge amount of difference, but it needs to be a proper 4-point, not a 'hoop' bar. Flyin' Miata makes a ton of body braces that make the chassis as stiff as the NB versions. My Tein coilovers on the softest settings are considerably more harsh on the road than my 968 was with Bilstein Escorts or Koni 3011's. A limited slip is critical in the car with its twitchiness, or at least in my opinion it is. The car is probably one of the most controllable cars I have ever driven in my setup (Tein's, Flyin Miata sways, LSD, Azenis 615's), but does take more work than my 968 ever did.

In closing, my opinion is that the NB models are a better choice. They have a better soft top that doesn't leak as often, a better designed (more 'attractive, easy on the eye') interior, the NB head gives a drastically better torque curve, and generally they will be less abused. I was partial to the NA for the longest time, then after owning one for over a year now, I am shopping for an NB. The 2000+ NB models get variable valve timing that helps the torque curve even more. The whole Miata scene is even more DIY oriented than the 944 scene IMO, and as a result there are more 'band-aids' than cures for problems with Miata's. Maintainence is relatively nil, but the harder you drive, the more that breaks (atleast in most NA's ive been in).

Wes

Euro951

R package cars were only available from 94-96. Flimsy chassis? Not for a convertible.. Never saw my window seals flex.... M package is the heaviest and the slowest of the 1.8l NA cars.

The NB Miata top is the same as the NA Miata top with the exception of a glass rear window. You can always buy a replacement top with a glass rear window.

Not trying to be overly critical of your comments but didn't feel you were giving the car a fair shake. The Miata is possibly the best small displacement sports/ convertible ever made.

equiraptor

Both the NAs and the NBs have very flexible chassis when compared with the NC. However, the NC is also a significantly newer design. I own a '94 (NA 1.8L) and an '06 (NC). I love them both.

Miata.net is probably the biggest and most informative Miata forum out there. The ratio of racers : other enthusiasts is smaller than what's found here, but there are still a lot of knowledgeable people and great info. Miata.net also has pages with breakdowns of changes between model years. It has a used Miata buying guide that can help you spot some of the common problems.

Nurburger

Oh man.... If I was unlucky enough to have a daughter, there's no way in HELL that i'd put her in a miata...

If I were you, I'd find her a "cool" Mercedes w124 diesel or another Mercedes diesel variant with the capability of converting to bio fuel... This will raise her to the higher echelons of coolness amongst her peers, while also putting her in a very protective tank that would crush a Navigator...

mtnman82

(most of) You guys are talking me into this...

A little more info I found out:

It's a standard model (no M or STO ), but does have A/C, p/w, 16" wheels (Falken 215/40ZR16), and an aftermarket suspension - he says it's a full AGX suspension (springs, shocks, swaybars) he got as a kit, but I can only find KYB AGX shocks when I search. I did see red springs in the back and it looks like it's been lowered about an inch or so. He says it's never been tracked or raced and he's been the owner for the past 9 years. I'm gonna go test drive it tomorrow night, so if there's anything I should be looking for please let me know. I'm going to go thru the Miata buying guide before then too.

Nurburger - we're also eyeing a '99 c280 with low miles and a lady I work with has a mid-90's-ish E320 she's mentioned getting rid of too. Sorry but no diesels for the daughter - if we go the non-miata route it will be for something I think will last her (and us) thru the college years without too much pain (i.e. no 'I accidentally put gas in the tank...' phone calls). As I said before, there's a little selfish motivation behind this miata thing.

Thanks guys!!!

Nugget

The Miata sounds promising. The only thing that's a warning sign from your description is those wheels. 16" wheels are pretty big for a miata and the earlier cars are very sensitive to unsprung weight. The handling on the NA and NB cars really suffers if you put heavy wheels on.

A common problem (exacerbated by heavy wheels) is a wheel vibration/shimmy right around 65mph. If the car you drive exhibits that, it's nothing at all to be concerned about, can be solved by a quality wheel balance usually. Also don't worry if you hear a little lifter clatter when the car first starts up -- they all do that.

Swagger93

Real constructive and on topic.

JHowell37

Go with the Miata. There's only room for one passenger, and unless she dates a complete loser, you shouldn't have to worrying about her handing the keys to a boyfriend.

If you get a NA model, make sure it has the "A" package at a minimum. The "A" package includes limited slip (torsen), AC, power steering, and speakers in the headrests (which will probably be shot at this point. I had a '94 with the "A" package. It had 120K miles on the clock when my ******* brother pushed into oversteer on damp pavement and totaled it last year. The reliability will blow you away. Only the very early models with the short crank had issues. '94-'97 models had the first real upgrades of the NA series. They went to a 1.8 liter engine, a rear shock brace, and a few other improvements. There is no way I'd consider anything older then a '94.

Personally, I would recommend the newer NB model just because it's newer and a bit more refined. They switched to a glass rear window on the soft top which is a nice feature, and more of them are likely to have things like power windows, locks, etc. Just make sure it has the limited slip. The only problem with the NB model is they are more likely to have an automatic which is a **** transmission in that kind of car. But then again, they knew who their audience was. I strongly discourage buying anything with an automatic when it comes to teenage drivers. They might bitch about having to shift gears, but are becoming increasingly rare and fewer and fewer people know how to operate one as time goes on. This is good for you, because it lowers the chances of her handing the keys to friends.

The engine is non interference and there are no catastrophic failure weaknesses. The only transmission worth considering is the manual. It's very rugged although others have suggested that the clutch is weak.

For $6K an NA had better be in pristine condition with fairly low mileage. If you search e-bay, and don't mind doing a bit of driving, you can easily get into a NB for that money.

Here's a list of maintenance costs that I can remember.
1. It may or may not need a new top. If you're mechanically inclined, and can follow directions perfectly, then replacing a top is doable. Don't consider any brand other then Robbins. They have many top options for the Miata. My '94 came with the standard black vinyl, with plastic rear window, and I changed it to a Robbins, made from Sunfast cloth, with a no zip glass rear window with defroster (the NB uses a glass, no zip rear window with a defroster, but is typically vinyl.) Don't even consider a new top without getting one with a new rain rail already attached.

2. Despite being a tiny convertible, the AC is very effective. If the blower seems to be weak, remove the squirrel cage and clean out the leaves and ****.

3. If heat seems to be coming up through the shifter area, there's an insulation pad that goes bad, and is readily available, easily replaced, and most importantly, cheap. But the primary cause of heat around the shifter are dry rotted shifter boots. I'm not talking about the decorative one that you look at, but there are two others underneath that. Unless they've been replaced recently, they will be bad, and they will let a lot of heat come through. I disagree with the earlier comments about a weak AC. In my experience, the Miata has an awesome AC. In '05 I took it on a vacation to Key West at the end of July. I stayed nice and cool inside. The shifter boots, insulation, and a clean squirrel cage are the recipe for a cool Miata.

4. There are a few bushings in the upper part of the shifter that will probably need replacing. Again, they're cheap, and you can do that when replace the insulation pad around the shifter.

5. Never adjust the parking brake. Some of the people on Miata.net seem to think that it needs periodic adjustment but it doesn't. Trust me, they do adjust themselves. It might take a day or two after a pad replacement, but they will adjust on their own. If they don't, then one or both rear calipers might need replacement.

6. Clutch slave cylinders are a known weakness. Some have talked about rebuilding them, or buying rebuilt ones, but you're better off getting a new one. Again, they're cheap (about $90.)

7. By now, maybe you've noticed a trend. Everything on a Miata is cheap relative to a Porsche.

8. Noisy lifters are very common, especially on cold start up, or if the car hasn't been driven in a long time. The best remedy for this is 10W-40 synthetic oil.

9. If you go with a NA, throw away the ****ty sealed beam headlights that are circa 1950, and replace them with some Hella H4s. IMO this is a safety issue.

10. NA airbag controllers sometimes develop issues. They've got a few weak capacitors that eventually crap out. I can't remember how it all works, but when the capacitors fail, and you get an airbag warning light, the computer controller for the airbags is shot at that point. A few people have tried to repair them, or just switch to an aftermarket steering wheel. Basically, once it detects an error, the computer self destructs to prevent the airbags from deploying. A new computer costs about $175.

11. The factory stereos on the NA models have an activation code that needs to be entered if the battery is unhooked. If you lose the code, you can find out how to reset it on Miata.net.

12. In the past, batteries were only available from Mazda and they were pricey. Now you can get a proper size battery from Autozone. Make sure the vent tubes for the battery are properly hooked up to prevent gas from building up in the trunk.

13. The 65MPH shimmy can come from a number of factors. A good wheel balance is imperative. The anti-theft nuts that are sometimes used have a big enough difference in weight from the standard lug nuts, to cause a slight balance issue. Just use four standard lug nuts. No one is going to steal the wheels from a Miata. If those two things don't solve your shimmy, then you're probably due for shocks (Any Miata is due for shocks by 50K-60K miles anyway.) I went to larger sway bars and AGX shocks on mine. At the same time I also replaced the lower ball joints and outer tie rod ends. This seemed to stop the shimmy but I noticed that it seemed like there was something rattling around or loose in the front end, but it wasn't like a shimmy or vibration. The front wheel bearings were shot. The front wheel bearings are the kind where the hub and bearing is one assembly that slips onto the spindle and is held in place with an axle nut under a lot of torque. If you have an impact gun, they're easy to replace, but not impossible if you don't. They cost about $90 for the bearing/hub assembly. If you need to replace the bearings in the rear, you'll need a press. Sometimes the axle can seize in hub and be next to impossible to get out. Personally, I wouldn't buy one that has already had the suspension toyed with because you know the car has been driven hard. I also wouldn't have aftermarket sway bars on it if my kid was driving it. My brother is/was a driver's ed instructor and like I said earlier, he launched it into a fence by inducing severe oversteer on slightly damp pavement and totaled the car. Aftermarket sways can produce a very profound effect on handling and aren't for novice drivers. Two final things on the suspension. The bump stops are part of the factory dust boots on the shocks. Many aftermarket shocks come with new boots, but they don't have the bump stops. If you replace the shocks, get new factory boots. My 1/2 mile dirt driveway gives me an aversion to lowering cars. Speed bumps can enforce this. A bone stock Miata is low enough as it is. Don't get one that's lowered, and don't lower one for a teenage driver if your goal is a trouble free vehicle.

14. As for stiffening the car, Flyin' Miata is the place to go. I had planned to get their butterfly brace until my brother wrecked the car. They've got some other neat looking braces as well, and I'm sure they work because that place is first rate. I disagree with the previous poster about seeing the window seals move, but will say that there is some cowl shake on rough pavement. It's not like a late 80s Mustang or LeBaron convertible where parking on uneven pavement could make the doors difficult to open and close. But I would fully recommend a real roll bar. Without one, the Miata has no rollover protection at all.

15. The factory shift **** is kind of ****ty in the NA and NB unless you get one with the Nardi shift ****. But the Nardi is pricey. IMO the BEST replacement is a shift **** from a '05 or so Mazda 6. It's cheaper then most other gaudy and garish shift *****, it adds a nice accent to the interior, is a direct fit, and OEM quality control.

For reliabilty, it doesn't get any better then a Miata. It might be small and lightweight, but it's still an ideal car for a teen because they can only have one bad influence in the car, not 2 or 3. IMO the worst thing you could buy for reliability is a Mercedes. Things are going to break or wear out on any old vehicle, but the Mazda is going to be a lot cheaper to repair, and parts will be more available.

If you go for it the Miata, let me know. I've got some MazdaSpeed motor mounts, and differential mounts that are brand new. I never had a chance to install them. I took the shifter **** out after the wreck, but it's gotten a bit funky in my tool box. I think I even have the factory sway bars. If you get this car, you'll want to switch back to the factory bars so she doesn't hurt herself. I even have a brand new AC drier for a NA. I might have one or two other things, as well.

You can PM if you have any other questions. 928 and 944 are like Bloods and Crips, so I tend to stay out of rival gang territory.