Best Low Cost Track Car
10-08-2009, 08:47 PM
#46
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Bear... I have never had a Miata blow by me on ANY straight. Some can turn faster lap at PIR than me at NASA Nationals the fastest Miata were faster than the fastest 944's, but there was no blowing by going on. I have blown by SM's at Cal Speedway up on the banking. Those cars just don't run well at over 120 mph.
Not sure who the friend is as know all the Az 944 spec guys, but having a Miata blow by is driver related. I am pretty sure I have blown by this guy a time or two myself if he has had Miata's blow by him.
Not sure who the friend is as know all the Az 944 spec guys, but having a Miata blow by is driver related. I am pretty sure I have blown by this guy a time or two myself if he has had Miata's blow by him.
i met you at firebird, i had just relocated from hawaii.
87951
10-12-2009, 09:14 PM
#49
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We drove a 1989 2.7 944 NA that was completely stripped out (claimed to weigh 2200 lbs) and had some mild engine work and it was pretty snappy - handled really well (turbo suspension and coil-overs) and I could definately have fun with it. I was impressed with the power and how well it pulled in the higher rpm ranges.
10-13-2009, 08:14 AM
#50
I don't know what happens out west but here in the east coast most of the SM Miatas are poorly prepped. Sure there are good cars out there but the majority are track rats. That being said you better have one kick *** 944 NA to even think about taking out a " track rat " Miata.
10-13-2009, 11:16 AM
#51
Race Director
A well preppared 944 spec car will run with a well preppared SM. Depending on the track and driver skill the SM or 944 could be faster. On the same track the 944 has more top end while the miata can run through corners a bit faster. This means the SM tends to have the edge in lap times, but since car prep and driver skill vary you can't say for certain which will turn faster lap times.
10-13-2009, 04:28 PM
#52
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Looked up the SCCA National Runoffs at Road America this year - fastest lap time for the spec miata's was a 2:44.5.
For PCA Club Racing, the fastest SP1 car ran a 2:47.7 this year. But only a couple SP1 cars there, so not the country wide draw/competition of the SCCA nationals. And these SP1 momentum cars get burried at the back of 60+ car PCA race groups, where they get slowed down in corners by slower drivers in faster classed cars. Tough to get any clean laps back there. So my guess is that a full pack of SP1s racing each other may be capable of turning faster laps. Point is - I dont see spec miata's being much faster than equal prepared and driven SP1 cars.
And from everything I have heard, the spec miata's competing at the national level like that, have some big money in the motors, signficantly more than the cost of these particular SP1 cars.
Going back several years ago ('00) a PCA B-stock class (was I class) 944 ran a mid 2:47. Full weight, but more suspension and hoosiers. My guess is that a B class car that has the latest suspension and tires would be a couple seconds faster, probably 2:45 is not out of the question.
A C-class progressed (larger brakes and a DME chip) 924S ran a 2:43 a few years ago. Full weight, koni coilovers, and 17" hoosiers.
The PCA stock class S2s and 951s are now running 2:36s, which is a whole different league. What do those 8-10 seconds a lap cost - probably about $1000 to $1500 more/sec to build the car, and then another $500-1000+ per event for consumables (tires).
For PCA Club Racing, the fastest SP1 car ran a 2:47.7 this year. But only a couple SP1 cars there, so not the country wide draw/competition of the SCCA nationals. And these SP1 momentum cars get burried at the back of 60+ car PCA race groups, where they get slowed down in corners by slower drivers in faster classed cars. Tough to get any clean laps back there. So my guess is that a full pack of SP1s racing each other may be capable of turning faster laps. Point is - I dont see spec miata's being much faster than equal prepared and driven SP1 cars.
And from everything I have heard, the spec miata's competing at the national level like that, have some big money in the motors, signficantly more than the cost of these particular SP1 cars.
Going back several years ago ('00) a PCA B-stock class (was I class) 944 ran a mid 2:47. Full weight, but more suspension and hoosiers. My guess is that a B class car that has the latest suspension and tires would be a couple seconds faster, probably 2:45 is not out of the question.
A C-class progressed (larger brakes and a DME chip) 924S ran a 2:43 a few years ago. Full weight, koni coilovers, and 17" hoosiers.
The PCA stock class S2s and 951s are now running 2:36s, which is a whole different league. What do those 8-10 seconds a lap cost - probably about $1000 to $1500 more/sec to build the car, and then another $500-1000+ per event for consumables (tires).
10-14-2009, 04:03 PM
#53
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This thread has me rethinking my plan to track my 951. So I've looked into late 90's the E36 328is and have found several pretty cheap. Anyone here have experience tracking these cars? Anything to watch for if I buy?
10-14-2009, 04:17 PM
#54
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Headgaskets / cooling systems are weak AFAIK. Easy to swap in other BMW parts like a shorter final drive / LSD (from E36 M3 for example). i guess it wouldn't be too hard to swap for a 3.0 or 3.5 I-6 either?
10-14-2009, 05:53 PM
#55
Drifting
To answer some questions -
"Low Cost" - 5-7k initial investment.
"Purpose" - Primarily DE and other non-wheel to wheel events
"Driver" - Not me, but a friend who has raced shifter karts at a very high level and used to prepare Marco Andretti's shifter karts. - he just wants something cheap he can use to get back into track driving and instructing.
Side note - I've tracked S2's and Turbo's and I think the S2 is a more reliable track car. Having said that, I know of some 951's that have minimal engine mods (chip, exhaust) and LOTS of suspension work that are wicked fast - at a recent DE in Beaverun, a mildly modified 951 was the fastest car at the track, running 1:05's and passing 911 GT3's, Z06's, and Rook 911 turbo 600's.
"Low Cost" - 5-7k initial investment.
"Purpose" - Primarily DE and other non-wheel to wheel events
"Driver" - Not me, but a friend who has raced shifter karts at a very high level and used to prepare Marco Andretti's shifter karts. - he just wants something cheap he can use to get back into track driving and instructing.
Side note - I've tracked S2's and Turbo's and I think the S2 is a more reliable track car. Having said that, I know of some 951's that have minimal engine mods (chip, exhaust) and LOTS of suspension work that are wicked fast - at a recent DE in Beaverun, a mildly modified 951 was the fastest car at the track, running 1:05's and passing 911 GT3's, Z06's, and Rook 911 turbo 600's.
10-14-2009, 06:35 PM
#56
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As far as problem areas - check the rear suspension mounting points - they are known to fail - sheet metal failure and eventual pull out of the suspension mounting points.
10-16-2009, 08:41 PM
#58
Burning Brakes
I haven't seen anyone mention accident damage. Bent metal is certainly a consideration too. For all the reasons cited above and the fact that insurance companies won't likely pay out for accident damage on the track, I changed course 2 years ago from tracking (DE) my 951 to picking up an E30 325is BMW.
I added sport shocks and racing springs and to my amazement, the car handled great! This year I added track tires and its even better. I was running 1:32's at Nelson Ledges. I run in the D or C groups and there are usually higher priced/ horsepowered cars on the field with me but most seem to be less skilled or less willing to push their cars, as I am able to go the whole session without getting passed much. Well, not as much as I thought I would.
As for comparison with cars mentioned here, I am able to keep up with 944NAs -I would say we are pretty even. And, the one 280z I ran with was a LOT slower. I was able to keep with some of the older 911's in the turns but got lost in the straights.
You can pick up E30's all day for $ 1,500-$ 2,000 (the cost of good A-arms for the 944) and throw that much more into getting parts to make it at least respectable on the DE track. I am slowly building it and adding parts.
I added sport shocks and racing springs and to my amazement, the car handled great! This year I added track tires and its even better. I was running 1:32's at Nelson Ledges. I run in the D or C groups and there are usually higher priced/ horsepowered cars on the field with me but most seem to be less skilled or less willing to push their cars, as I am able to go the whole session without getting passed much. Well, not as much as I thought I would.
As for comparison with cars mentioned here, I am able to keep up with 944NAs -I would say we are pretty even. And, the one 280z I ran with was a LOT slower. I was able to keep with some of the older 911's in the turns but got lost in the straights.
You can pick up E30's all day for $ 1,500-$ 2,000 (the cost of good A-arms for the 944) and throw that much more into getting parts to make it at least respectable on the DE track. I am slowly building it and adding parts.
10-17-2009, 12:33 AM
#59
No one yet mentioned an early R32 Skyline GTR? I believe they can be imported in the US as a track only vehicle (no issues with registration), super cheap in Japan, a few Canadian importers are specialized in getting these in (they clear the 15+ year requirement). They go for an average of less than 10K$ in Canada these days. Solid handling, as much power as you want, and 4WD.
I can not comment about reliability, no idea.
Regards,
Chris
I can not comment about reliability, no idea.
Regards,
Chris
