View Poll Results: Cayman or not for your next track P-car?
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Who would conside the Cayman as a replacement for there 951 when prices come down?
05-04-2009, 08:18 PM
#46
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I'd love a 993 but, for right now its 996, track car, and my 951. I'm still on a budget. When I hit the lotto everyone will know. I'll have a modded white 993 Turbo S in the driveway.
I purchased a 996 TT 2 years ago which is now dead R.I.P. (in hell) – I seriously modified it to try and create a perfect car for me … scrapped the 4wd, fitted carbon GT2 brakes and GT2 box and LSD but we never got on. The harder I pushed it the harder it resisted, I hated the steering input which I found to be very vague 
My wet dream
I think the Caymans will be incredible track cars. Judging by how well the spec Boxsters are doing - in only the first year or two of SBOX being on track they are turning laps as fast or faster than any 951 based car short of "RSR" prepped vehicles. At my local track TWS SBOX's are turning 1:56 and this with the regular 97-99 motor. That is as fast as many modded RS Americas with Motons and 997GT3's on race slicks (not R comp). I can only imagine what a stiffer and sharper Cayman chassis can do especially since there is even more power.
The Cayman is an excellent driver's car but it shares too many styling cues with the ***-engined Porsches. It's a shame Porsche design their non-911 cars base their overall design on the 911 which has got seriously uglier since the 996. The Panamera would certainly have looked decent without that ugly rear reminiscent of the 996/997.
IMHO anyway.
As for selling either of my 944 to budget for a more recent Porsche, I'd rather be seen naked at the wheel of a metallic pink Civic Type R.
IMHO anyway.
As for selling either of my 944 to budget for a more recent Porsche, I'd rather be seen naked at the wheel of a metallic pink Civic Type R.
I also seriously agree with you that the current range of Porsche cars are getting uglier and no longer focused and purist – simply rich mans toys who do not appreciate the heritage what has gone before them. I do not agree that the 997 is worse looking than the 996 as to me the 996 was a disaster in every respect … the 993 to me had everything pics below:
Side by side 993 and new 997:
993:
997:
How can anybody disagree which looks best
I haven't purchased anything lately. I bought a 914 in '95 that I still have... I bought my first 944 in in '96. Bought my Turbo S in '00 - that has slowly evolved into a track car - which I currently race. 2 years ago I bought a 996 C4 as a daily driver.
I'm a fan of all Porsches, and have driven most models (and most of those on the track. I like them all... and, in fact, forgot what we were arguing about.
I'm a fan of all Porsches, and have driven most models (and most of those on the track. I like them all... and, in fact, forgot what we were arguing about.
And no argument mate
… The late 996’s do make for great DD cars and at the current prices they can’t be ignored – I was just talking about Track cars here with the Cayman
05-04-2009, 08:32 PM
#47
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My 951 is not going anywhere. Partialy because I like it, mostly because I would take such a finacial hit it would be plain stupid. The only place its going is the track its on, towards being a dedicated track car. The only thing preventing from being such now is that it is registered and insured. Other wise it is a totaly stripped PCA GT3s legal car I hope to race once this season.
However last winter (2008) I bought a 2001 BMW M3. All I can say is my god what an engineering marvel. So if I was to be replacing my 951 it would be with a M3, no question.
I tracked it bone stock and it was amazing. It was very fast, but wow was it easy to drive. I wish some one had been timing me that day because I think those lap time would have been very close to my times in my 951. And thats a 3500lbs 333hp luxury GT vs. a 2800lbs 485hp stripped track car.
However last winter (2008) I bought a 2001 BMW M3. All I can say is my god what an engineering marvel. So if I was to be replacing my 951 it would be with a M3, no question.
I tracked it bone stock and it was amazing. It was very fast, but wow was it easy to drive. I wish some one had been timing me that day because I think those lap time would have been very close to my times in my 951. And thats a 3500lbs 333hp luxury GT vs. a 2800lbs 485hp stripped track car.
05-04-2009, 08:43 PM
#48
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However last winter (2008) I bought a 2001 BMW M3. All I can say is my god what an engineering marvel. So if I was to be replacing my 951 it would be with a M3, no question.
Anybody checked out the Quaife Transaxle sequential gearbox? http://www.quaife.co.uk/6-SPEED-SEQU...EARBOX-PACKAGE
05-04-2009, 08:46 PM
#49
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05-04-2009, 09:01 PM
#51
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Van loving that mate so will you go down the 5 stud route as on the 914/6
Looks like you've done a full restore and paint job there - very impressive
Looks like you've done a full restore and paint job there - very impressive
05-04-2009, 10:51 PM
#52
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I already put the BMW 320 calipers on it... doing a 5-lug conversion is just about the last thing on my list. First I have to put the engine back together: www.ephotomotion.com/914engine
Between maintaining the 952 track car, occasional oil changes on the 996 and, you know, having a family (and a job), further upgrades on the 914 will have to wait.
Between maintaining the 952 track car, occasional oil changes on the 996 and, you know, having a family (and a job), further upgrades on the 914 will have to wait.
05-04-2009, 10:55 PM
#53
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Van I like to see you put your 952 at the top of the priority list mate, closely folowed by your 996 and then the family ... A true die-hard proven and worthy P-car commited enthusiast 
05-04-2009, 11:06 PM
#54
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One of the reasons I am so fond of the 996 is that in almost 2 years years, it's needed almost nothing. Just oil changes, tires, a battery and a brake cooling duct that I broke off in a snow storm. It's 138k miles and going strong.
Hardly anything on the 944 is original or unmodified - I've even welded up the sunroof for chrissake!
Hardly anything on the 944 is original or unmodified - I've even welded up the sunroof for chrissake!
05-05-2009, 08:39 AM
#56
Burning Brakes
FWIW, I'll add my CS experience, but cannot compare it to other P-cars as this is my first.
I've had the car since Jan 06, still stock with few exceptions: new front rotors (two-piece PFCs, now the rears need replacement as well), added brake cooling NACA ducts. I have 52K street miles and ~5K track miles on it.
Thankfully, I haven't had any major issues, it feels and drives like the first day still. I have never owned a car past 3 years, but this one I still cannot get enough of it and I am not exagerating. I did not have a lot of expectations when I purchased the car, and it suprised me with how easy it is to drive to its limits, its comfort and steering accuracy. PASM has been a very welcome feature and I still don't think I will be changing it any time soon. Camber and toe management at the track has been a pleseant suprise as well for a stock car and even the shoulders of the r-comps hasn't been an issue.
The car weighs as it came from factory with full tank and me (205 lbs) 3325 lbs. I would not know how to shed 200 lbs to come to minimum weight for H-stock, never thought about it. One last plus to mention is that fitting large tires haven been quite easy without modifying fenders; I carry 305/35 rear and 255/35 fronts. Adjusting the balance of the car with tire pressures have been very easy, and inducing oversteer at will is still possible even with those 305s. It is really sweet to drive.
For the problems and negative:
Front suspension bushings are giving away, will be replacing them with solid mounts.
Brake cooling seems to be an issue for some, but the NACA ducts are working great for me.
There have been more than few reports on engine failures and oil getting into the cylinders during high sustained gs for people using slick r-comps. I haven't had it severely with R888s and haven't implemented the IVOS fix, but I think I will as an insurance as I am out of warranty now.
Many reported the power steering line deterioting due to lack of heat shield around the plastic and rubber parts and several reported loosing PS at the track. I haven't had the issue, and did not put the shielding on.
My biggest complaint is the shifter; rubbery and imprecise. I am thinking of putting in the short shifter and harder engine mounts once I decide if/when I am go club racing and I'll take a look at the rule book at the time.
More power is always welcome, but it is not like I feel frustrated. This car is truly teaching me how to be smoother to maintain momentum. There are relatively easy fixes for power; such as a race plenum with GT3 throttle body, exhaust and software updates that will cost less than $5K and provide 40-50 hp and 30-40 trq more. I might do it at some time later, again depending on rule books.
Given its price, which was steep at MSRP, I still feel I have gotten a lot out of the car and it will continue to give. If you can have this car on the used market for less than $35K for a good example, I'd highly recommend it.
Cheers,
I've had the car since Jan 06, still stock with few exceptions: new front rotors (two-piece PFCs, now the rears need replacement as well), added brake cooling NACA ducts. I have 52K street miles and ~5K track miles on it.
Thankfully, I haven't had any major issues, it feels and drives like the first day still. I have never owned a car past 3 years, but this one I still cannot get enough of it and I am not exagerating. I did not have a lot of expectations when I purchased the car, and it suprised me with how easy it is to drive to its limits, its comfort and steering accuracy. PASM has been a very welcome feature and I still don't think I will be changing it any time soon. Camber and toe management at the track has been a pleseant suprise as well for a stock car and even the shoulders of the r-comps hasn't been an issue.
The car weighs as it came from factory with full tank and me (205 lbs) 3325 lbs. I would not know how to shed 200 lbs to come to minimum weight for H-stock, never thought about it. One last plus to mention is that fitting large tires haven been quite easy without modifying fenders; I carry 305/35 rear and 255/35 fronts. Adjusting the balance of the car with tire pressures have been very easy, and inducing oversteer at will is still possible even with those 305s. It is really sweet to drive.
For the problems and negative:
Front suspension bushings are giving away, will be replacing them with solid mounts.
Brake cooling seems to be an issue for some, but the NACA ducts are working great for me.
There have been more than few reports on engine failures and oil getting into the cylinders during high sustained gs for people using slick r-comps. I haven't had it severely with R888s and haven't implemented the IVOS fix, but I think I will as an insurance as I am out of warranty now.
Many reported the power steering line deterioting due to lack of heat shield around the plastic and rubber parts and several reported loosing PS at the track. I haven't had the issue, and did not put the shielding on.
My biggest complaint is the shifter; rubbery and imprecise. I am thinking of putting in the short shifter and harder engine mounts once I decide if/when I am go club racing and I'll take a look at the rule book at the time.
More power is always welcome, but it is not like I feel frustrated. This car is truly teaching me how to be smoother to maintain momentum. There are relatively easy fixes for power; such as a race plenum with GT3 throttle body, exhaust and software updates that will cost less than $5K and provide 40-50 hp and 30-40 trq more. I might do it at some time later, again depending on rule books.
Given its price, which was steep at MSRP, I still feel I have gotten a lot out of the car and it will continue to give. If you can have this car on the used market for less than $35K for a good example, I'd highly recommend it.
Cheers,
05-05-2009, 08:55 AM
#57
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Hi Toaster, I just read a post in the DE/racing forum yesterday about a gentleman who raced a Cayman for the first time a week ago at Lime Rock. I think it was the car's maiden track outing, and he had both problems with the brakes overheating and problems with the power steering lines. You should track down his post.
And, about the weight, 200 lbs is a big goal - but by putting in race seats, a cat-free exhaust, removing some of the sound deadening and other misc parts (does it have a spare tire?), you should be able to easily get 100 lbs out.
I'm glad you're having so much fun with the car! That's really what it's all about.
And, about the weight, 200 lbs is a big goal - but by putting in race seats, a cat-free exhaust, removing some of the sound deadening and other misc parts (does it have a spare tire?), you should be able to easily get 100 lbs out.
I'm glad you're having so much fun with the car! That's really what it's all about.
05-05-2009, 10:51 AM
#58
Burning Brakes
Hi Toaster, I just read a post in the DE/racing forum yesterday about a gentleman who raced a Cayman for the first time a week ago at Lime Rock. I think it was the car's maiden track outing, and he had both problems with the brakes overheating and problems with the power steering lines. You should track down his post.
And, about the weight, 200 lbs is a big goal - but by putting in race seats, a cat-free exhaust, removing some of the sound deadening and other misc parts (does it have a spare tire?), you should be able to easily get 100 lbs out.
I'm glad you're having so much fun with the car! That's really what it's all about.
And, about the weight, 200 lbs is a big goal - but by putting in race seats, a cat-free exhaust, removing some of the sound deadening and other misc parts (does it have a spare tire?), you should be able to easily get 100 lbs out.
I'm glad you're having so much fun with the car! That's really what it's all about.
He could not get 200 lbs out of his car either, but I don't know how stripped his car is, he was about 100 lbs over I think.
And yes, thank you, I am really enjoy the car
just to add some 944 content to this... At the track in my group, blue, I do have hard time catching regular 944s, Sess, Turbos. They seem to be so much lighter that in tighter sections, I can barely keep up and if the driver is better than I loose ground; then I make up on the straights of course. People that have driven both cars do mention that they have very similar feel, but the power difference is significant.
Here is a video from Summit, last DE of '08 (please don't mind the background music; there is no exhaust note in the car, it is all wind noise, so I thought music would be better): http://www.vimeo.com/2139588
05-05-2009, 01:51 PM
#59
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Toaster - many thanks for your real life Cayman feedback and crossing over to join us on the 951 board Your input and experience is greatly appreciated and I look forward to purchasing one very soon once the 993 project and Beni's 951 race car is finished
Your input and experience is greatly appreciated and I look forward to purchasing one very soon once the 993 project and Beni's 951 race car is finished
05-06-2009, 09:52 AM
#60
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A few comments...
There is an inexpensive do-it-yourself aftermarket solution for the Cayman power steering pump overheating problem, which has found to be an issue on the track. That is an under-drive pulley (UDP) that slows down the power steering pump and reduces heating. There are at least a couple vendors. For example, see http://www.planetporsche.net/reviews...duct=157&cat=4. The UDP also reduces the load on the engine and has been shown to add a few more rwhp.
The first-generation Cayman engines (not the new DFI version) use the M97 engine, which is the same architecture as in the 997 and 997S. I don't know if it has completely eliminated the problems of the earlier M96 engines, but engine problems certainly seem to be far less frequent. I've heard or read of very few problems in the Caymans.
For the non-DFI Caymans, some relatively simple aftermarket mods--intake plenum and throttle body, exhaust/headers, and ECU flash--will add about 50 bhp, which starts to give the Cayman some serious grunt. I expect there will soon be versions of these mods for the new DFI engines.
I sold my '89 Turbo to get a Cayman S a couple years ago. Everything you hear about its mid-engine handling characteristics is true. I was actually looking to buy a used 996TT until I test drove a Cayman S. That completely sold me on the Cayman.
There is an inexpensive do-it-yourself aftermarket solution for the Cayman power steering pump overheating problem, which has found to be an issue on the track. That is an under-drive pulley (UDP) that slows down the power steering pump and reduces heating. There are at least a couple vendors. For example, see http://www.planetporsche.net/reviews...duct=157&cat=4. The UDP also reduces the load on the engine and has been shown to add a few more rwhp.
The first-generation Cayman engines (not the new DFI version) use the M97 engine, which is the same architecture as in the 997 and 997S. I don't know if it has completely eliminated the problems of the earlier M96 engines, but engine problems certainly seem to be far less frequent. I've heard or read of very few problems in the Caymans.
For the non-DFI Caymans, some relatively simple aftermarket mods--intake plenum and throttle body, exhaust/headers, and ECU flash--will add about 50 bhp, which starts to give the Cayman some serious grunt. I expect there will soon be versions of these mods for the new DFI engines.
I sold my '89 Turbo to get a Cayman S a couple years ago. Everything you hear about its mid-engine handling characteristics is true. I was actually looking to buy a used 996TT until I test drove a Cayman S. That completely sold me on the Cayman.