SamGrant951

Never had the oil tested before but figured Id see what they had to say. Motor was a spare engine with good compression, recently rebuilt head, rod bearings replaced that was installed 1/08.

Motor has around 150k, the oil had about 1400-1500 miles / 8 months on it. 2 trackdays, a few dyno runs.

Valvoline VR1 20W50. Car has not lost any coolant that I have noticed...(refering to the Sodium content note.)

Just figured Id post it up, cost was $22.50 for the test plus $10 for the TBN.

Sam

333pg333

So did they give you any conclusions or just run the test itself Sam?

CPR

Sam,
Is the low MolyB and Boron numbers attributed to running a Synth with little wear additives?

Or is it something else...or nothing at all?

Thanks for posting this. Very Interesting!

SamGrant951

No real conclusions other than his short note at the top....its prob more for establishing a baseline and continuous testing to check levels and for some to try and extend oil usage safely.

I honestly have no idea regarding the MolyB/Boron/Sodium #'s, maybe someone else can shed some light?

The oil Im using is: http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=50

An explanation of the chart from their website: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/eng_balloon_report_.html

Explanation of tests performed: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/what_..._analysis.html

A TBN (total base number) measures the amount of active additive left in a sample of oil. "The TBN is useful for people who want to extend their oil usage far beyond the normal range." That was an extra $10.

mj951

I sent a sample to them last fall, VR1 20w50 and had a similar warning with high sodium and possible coolant present.
My oil filter housing seals were replaced the year prior and like you I have not had any issues with lost coolant.
I had been assuming the sodium was an additive in the oil per their report and am even more convinced now, thanks for posting your results.

SamGrant951

Thanks mj951, thats good to hear. On the website it says the additives present in your oil wont match the universal averages as they are a mix of all types of oils so Im glad to hear you had a similar report/note.

mj951

No problem, one less thing to be anxious about.
I'm actually on the road today so i don't have the report in front of me, just going off memory.
I'll compare our elements in parts per million when i get home and report back if there are major discrepancies between the two.
Better yet, if i get around to replacing a broken scanner i'll post my report.
Thanks again for posting.

333pg333

Looks like there is plenty of Zinc though.

mj951

Sam, here is the report I got from Blackstone.
This oil only had about 2200 miles of weekend driving, no DE's.
There are some differences between our reports and while i'm not sure what the differences represent nothing seems so far out of line to be of concern.
I'm planning to get another report at the end of this season.
Comparing results from year to year on a single car should reveal significant changes in engine wear and potential problems.

CPR

Hey, can one of you guys shoot an e-mail to Blackstone about the MolyB and boron content analysis?

This part intrigues me. Or if you have a contact name + # I'll do it.

Thanks for any insight.

SamGrant951

Just dropped them an email, if they dont respond Ill give em a call.

CPR

Thanks, Sam.

Obviously the content ratios are not a problem as your car and the other posters are all in fine working order as described by the report.

I am just interested in what these two agents do, the concentration of them in different manufacturers, the wear analysis in regards to the presence, or lack thereof and/or is this perhaps simply a by product of what the engine and subsequent components are made of and those specific results are proprietary of that (i.e. oil in an Alumisil block would not reflect these OR perhaps absorb them(?) to some degree, whereas a common iron block would would reflect....just thinking out loud)

Again, thanks for any insight, I look forward to Blackstones enlightenment,.

JohnKoaWood

I could be wrong but I believe both the MolyB and Boron would be higher in Iron block engines than ours, as both are lubricants and increase as bearings and such wear in or out on Iron block engines... MolyB dust is used to strip grease as it will readily absorb grease, but in a suspension MolyB is an excellent lubricant (most anti-seize compounds are MolyB in a suspension..) I used to use it all the time in both dust and suspension in a previous life on H60 Aircraft as both a degreaser and a lubricant... Boron is a roller bearing wear indicator usually... but like I said I could be wrong

TurboTommy

Moly and boron are antiwear additives that are present in virgin oil. Some companies use a significant amount of them, some don't. Obviously, Valvoline uses next to nothing in their VR1 (could even be left over from oil change), and concentrates on the zinc and phosphorus.
Moly (short for molybdenum) is a good additive; supposedly keeps metal surfaces slippery. Redline oil uses a ton of it.

SamGrant951

Got a response from Blackstone:

That is an excellent question. The universal averages are calculated from all normal-looking samples from a particular engine type; in this case, the Porsche 2.5L. Boron and molybdenum are additives, and since additive levels vary--greatly sometimes--these levels in our averages file usually don't directly match up with a given sample. Many oils contain lots of Molybdenum, this one does not. Same with boron. Molybdenum is an anti-wear additive, while boron is a detergent/dispersant additive. Whether or not these two particular additives themselves improve performance is indeterminable. Typical anti-wear additives are phosphorus and zinc, while typical dispersant additives are calcium, magnesium, and sometimes sodium or barium. When analyzing different oil brands and grades, you will see these levels change typically.

In regards to the high sodium he went on to say that he didnt think VR1 contained sodium - but I may send a virgin sample in shortly just to see where the values stand.