Notices
944 Turbo and Turbo-S Forum 1982-1991
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Clore Automotive

3" snorkel development- anyone intersted?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 06-07-2010, 04:33 PM
  #31  
kevincnc
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
 
kevincnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Probably in my shop.
Posts: 1,575
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I think the main problem as Jason pointed out is that there is still the restriction where the snorkel meets the airbox. Considering that, I don't think it's worth the trouble to make the snorkel bigger anymore since I don't need to worry about government restrictions. If anyone wants to buy me a new standard Vitesse MAF kit with v-flex, I might be willing to trade my entire stealth setup + the chip/board that goes with it. It's not v-flex though.
Old 03-11-2011, 06:11 AM
  #32  
vanosman
Instructor
 
vanosman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

anyone figure how Broadfoot reconfigs the stock flapper AFM ?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...ml#post5894796
Old 03-11-2011, 02:38 PM
  #33  
Tom M'Guinn

Rennlist Member
 
Tom M'Guinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Just CA Now :)
Posts: 12,567
Received 534 Likes on 287 Posts
Default

Don't know, but by placing it after the intercooler it should be able to measure more airflow, since cooler air takes less space. Seems like a clever way to extend the air measuring range of the barn door...
Old 03-11-2011, 03:55 PM
  #34  
adrial
Nordschleife Master
 
adrial's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 7,426
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by Tom M'Guinn
Don't know, but by placing it after the intercooler it should be able to measure more airflow, since cooler air takes less space. Seems like a clever way to extend the air measuring range of the barn door...
The factory setup has it sucking in ambient temperature air from the fender ... how could the air post-IC be any cooler?
Old 03-11-2011, 06:45 PM
  #35  
Tom M'Guinn

Rennlist Member
 
Tom M'Guinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Just CA Now :)
Posts: 12,567
Received 534 Likes on 287 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by adrial
The factory setup has it sucking in ambient temperature air from the fender ... how could the air post-IC be any cooler?
You're right! Wasn't thinking...
Old 03-11-2011, 07:42 PM
  #36  
Paulyy
Professional Hoon
Rennlist Member
 
Paulyy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,090
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by adrial
The factory setup has it sucking in ambient temperature air from the fender ... how could the air post-IC be any cooler?
But if you have the turbo spooling and making 20 psi for example, that air wont be as cold as it came from outside.
Old 04-19-2012, 11:16 PM
  #37  
kevincnc
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
 
kevincnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Probably in my shop.
Posts: 1,575
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by jasonlp
There's one big limiting factor, where the snorkel meets the airbox is the biggest restriction point in the airbox system. It's almost not worth it unless that bottleneck is delt with.
Jason my friend I have to call you out on this. How did you figure that the biggest restriction was there? Here's what I did just now: Wrapped a thin wire around the end of the snorkel where it enters the airbox, twisted it tight, and cut it off. The wire measured 11" long. That's about the equivalent of a 3-1/2" circle. Subtract .25" for a .125" wall thickness, and you get an equivalent of a 3.25" diameter pipe. Being squished into a flat triangle doesn't help, but I can't imagine that it hurts too much.

The round part of the snorkel is only about 2.2" ID. So,

2.2" diameter = 3.8 in^2
3.25" diameter = 8.3 in^2

Someone check my math please, but if it's right that's a huge difference. It seems to make sense that the German company pointed out by Voith in this thread makes an 80mm (3.15") snorkel.
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...air-box-2.html

I am re-motivated to make one
Old 04-19-2012, 11:32 PM
  #38  
kevincnc
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
 
kevincnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Probably in my shop.
Posts: 1,575
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Wait, numbers are wrong. The wire is 14" (I read off of the wrong side of the scale.) That's more like the equivalent of a 4-1/2" diameter..
Old 04-20-2012, 12:18 AM
  #39  
jasonlp
Three Wheelin'
 
jasonlp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,346
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by kevincnc
Jason my friend I have to call you out on this. How did you figure that the biggest restriction was there? Here's what I did just now: Wrapped a thin wire around the end of the snorkel where it enters the airbox, twisted it tight, and cut it off. The wire measured 11" long. That's about the equivalent of a 3-1/2" circle. Subtract .25" for a .125" wall thickness, and you get an equivalent of a 3.25" diameter pipe. Being squished into a flat triangle doesn't help, but I can't imagine that it hurts too much.

The round part of the snorkel is only about 2.2" ID. So,

2.2" diameter = 3.8 in^2
3.25" diameter = 8.3 in^2

Someone check my math please, but if it's right that's a huge difference. It seems to make sense that the German company pointed out by Voith in this thread makes an 80mm (3.15") snorkel.
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...air-box-2.html

I am re-motivated to make one
BUSTED!

Based on no math, only visualy I chose the top three bottlenecks, entrance and exit of the airbox and the IC to turbo rubber hose. I've also learned a lot more since then
Old 04-20-2012, 03:05 PM
  #40  
Tom M'Guinn

Rennlist Member
 
Tom M'Guinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Just CA Now :)
Posts: 12,567
Received 534 Likes on 287 Posts
Default

A 4 inch diameter round tube will measure about 12.5 inches around and have a cross-sectional area of about 12.5 square inches. On the other hand, a rectangle that measures 1/4 inch by 6 inches will also measure 12.5 inches around, but will have a cross sectional area of only 1.5 square inches -- i.e. the tube has over 8 times as much area even though the length around the outside is exactly the same.

The actual opening looks to be roughly the shape of a right triangle of about 1.5" x 5.75" x 6". That means the tape would measure about 13.25 inches around, or close to the 14" you measured when you add in the wall thickness. The area of a right triagle is equal to the base (1.5) times height (5.75) divided by 2. All of that means the cross-sectional area of the opening is roughly (1.5' x 5.75")/2 or about 4.3 square inches. A round tube with 4.3" inches of cross-sectional area would measure just about 2.3" in diameter, which is pretty close to the 2.2 inches you measured for the round part of the snorkel. Crazy german engineers...

I defer to someone smarter as to whether triangle-shaped and circle-shaped openings flow the same amount of air if they have the same cross-sectional area. They didn't teach us that in geometry class...

Last edited by Tom M'Guinn; 04-21-2012 at 03:17 PM.
Old 04-20-2012, 04:16 PM
  #41  
kevincnc
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
 
kevincnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Probably in my shop.
Posts: 1,575
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by Tom M'Guinn
I'm sure Porsche designed it to flow somewhere near the snorkel's capacity, but measuring the perimeter of the opening isn't an ideal way to confirm. A 4 inch diameter round tube will measure about 12.5 inches around and have a cross-sectional area of about 12.5 square inches. On the other hand, a rectangle that measures 1/4 inch by 6 inches will also measure 12.5 inches around, but will have a cross sectional area of only 1.5 square inches -- i.e. the tube has over 8 times as much area even though the length around the outside is exactly the same.

The actual opening looks to be roughly the shape of a right triangle of about 1.5" x 5.75" x 6". That means the tape would measure about 13.25 inches around, or close to the 14" you measured when you add in the wall thickness. The area of a right triagle is equal to the base (1.5) times height (5.75) divided by 2. All of that means the cross-sectional area of the opening is roughly (1.5' x 5.75")/2 or about 4.3 square inches. A round tube with 4.3" inches of cross-sectional area would measure just about 2.3" in diameter, which is pretty close to the 2.2 inches you measured for the round part of the snorkel. Crazy german engineers...

I defer to someone smarter as to whether triangle-shaped and circle-shaped openings flow the same amount of air if they have the same cross-sectional area. They didn't teach is that in geometry class...
I should have realized that..
Old 04-20-2012, 08:42 PM
  #42  
msalvatore
Rennlist Member
 
msalvatore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: tewksbury, NJ
Posts: 97
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

The short answer is for a given circular opening to get the same flow in a non circular tube would require a larger area. A circle is the optimized shape for best flow. The shape of the factory triangular section is not ideal at all, just a compromise for packaging. The long answer is way to long to calculate.
Old 04-21-2012, 02:59 AM
  #43  
kevincnc
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
 
kevincnc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Probably in my shop.
Posts: 1,575
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Okay I was drunk (really) when I measured the perimeter of the snorkel and equated it to to the area of a circle. I am an idiot and should turn in my engineering degree.

robstah, this is about the airbox/snorkel restriction with a stealth MAF already replacing the AFM.
Old 04-21-2012, 08:49 AM
  #44  
teamcrossworks
Rennlist Member
 
teamcrossworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Kevin,

Please...have a drink (to motivate) and keep at it. I refuse to give up my "stock look" but am planning to go Rogue MAF.

I don't have a lot to bring to the table but if there is anything I can do to help...

I do have an extra snorkle and airbox?



Quick Reply: 3" snorkel development- anyone intersted?



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 03:16 PM.