3" snorkel development- anyone intersted?
#31
Three Wheelin'
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I think the main problem as Jason pointed out is that there is still the restriction where the snorkel meets the airbox. Considering that, I don't think it's worth the trouble to make the snorkel bigger anymore since I don't need to worry about government restrictions. If anyone wants to buy me a new standard Vitesse MAF kit with v-flex, I might be willing to trade my entire stealth setup + the chip/board that goes with it. It's not v-flex though.
#32
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anyone figure how Broadfoot reconfigs the stock flapper AFM ?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...ml#post5894796
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...ml#post5894796
![](http://broadfootracing.com/Patrick_Lancaster_77.jpg)
#33
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Don't know, but by placing it after the intercooler it should be able to measure more airflow, since cooler air takes less space. Seems like a clever way to extend the air measuring range of the barn door...
#34
Nordschleife Master
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The factory setup has it sucking in ambient temperature air from the fender ... how could the air post-IC be any cooler?
#35
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#37
Three Wheelin'
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The round part of the snorkel is only about 2.2" ID. So,
2.2" diameter = 3.8 in^2
3.25" diameter = 8.3 in^2
Someone check my math please, but if it's right that's a huge difference. It seems to make sense that the German company pointed out by Voith in this thread makes an 80mm (3.15") snorkel.
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...air-box-2.html
I am re-motivated to make one
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#38
Three Wheelin'
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Wait, numbers are wrong. The wire is 14" (I read off of the wrong side of the scale.) That's more like the equivalent of a 4-1/2" diameter..
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#39
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Jason my friend I have to call you out on this. How did you figure that the biggest restriction was there? Here's what I did just now: Wrapped a thin wire around the end of the snorkel where it enters the airbox, twisted it tight, and cut it off. The wire measured 11" long. That's about the equivalent of a 3-1/2" circle. Subtract .25" for a .125" wall thickness, and you get an equivalent of a 3.25" diameter pipe. Being squished into a flat triangle doesn't help, but I can't imagine that it hurts too much.
The round part of the snorkel is only about 2.2" ID. So,
2.2" diameter = 3.8 in^2
3.25" diameter = 8.3 in^2
Someone check my math please, but if it's right that's a huge difference. It seems to make sense that the German company pointed out by Voith in this thread makes an 80mm (3.15") snorkel.
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...air-box-2.html
I am re-motivated to make one![burnout](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/burnout.gif)
The round part of the snorkel is only about 2.2" ID. So,
2.2" diameter = 3.8 in^2
3.25" diameter = 8.3 in^2
Someone check my math please, but if it's right that's a huge difference. It seems to make sense that the German company pointed out by Voith in this thread makes an 80mm (3.15") snorkel.
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...air-box-2.html
I am re-motivated to make one
![burnout](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/burnout.gif)
![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Based on no math, only visualy I chose the top three bottlenecks, entrance and exit of the airbox and the IC to turbo rubber hose. I've also learned a lot more since then
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#40
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A 4 inch diameter round tube will measure about 12.5 inches around and have a cross-sectional area of about 12.5 square inches. On the other hand, a rectangle that measures 1/4 inch by 6 inches will also measure 12.5 inches around, but will have a cross sectional area of only 1.5 square inches -- i.e. the tube has over 8 times as much area even though the length around the outside is exactly the same.
The actual opening looks to be roughly the shape of a right triangle of about 1.5" x 5.75" x 6". That means the tape would measure about 13.25 inches around, or close to the 14" you measured when you add in the wall thickness. The area of a right triagle is equal to the base (1.5) times height (5.75) divided by 2. All of that means the cross-sectional area of the opening is roughly (1.5' x 5.75")/2 or about 4.3 square inches. A round tube with 4.3" inches of cross-sectional area would measure just about 2.3" in diameter, which is pretty close to the 2.2 inches you measured for the round part of the snorkel. Crazy german engineers...
I defer to someone smarter as to whether triangle-shaped and circle-shaped openings flow the same amount of air if they have the same cross-sectional area. They didn't teach us that in geometry class...
The actual opening looks to be roughly the shape of a right triangle of about 1.5" x 5.75" x 6". That means the tape would measure about 13.25 inches around, or close to the 14" you measured when you add in the wall thickness. The area of a right triagle is equal to the base (1.5) times height (5.75) divided by 2. All of that means the cross-sectional area of the opening is roughly (1.5' x 5.75")/2 or about 4.3 square inches. A round tube with 4.3" inches of cross-sectional area would measure just about 2.3" in diameter, which is pretty close to the 2.2 inches you measured for the round part of the snorkel. Crazy german engineers...
I defer to someone smarter as to whether triangle-shaped and circle-shaped openings flow the same amount of air if they have the same cross-sectional area. They didn't teach us that in geometry class...
Last edited by Tom M'Guinn; 04-21-2012 at 03:17 PM.
#41
Three Wheelin'
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I'm sure Porsche designed it to flow somewhere near the snorkel's capacity, but measuring the perimeter of the opening isn't an ideal way to confirm. A 4 inch diameter round tube will measure about 12.5 inches around and have a cross-sectional area of about 12.5 square inches. On the other hand, a rectangle that measures 1/4 inch by 6 inches will also measure 12.5 inches around, but will have a cross sectional area of only 1.5 square inches -- i.e. the tube has over 8 times as much area even though the length around the outside is exactly the same.
The actual opening looks to be roughly the shape of a right triangle of about 1.5" x 5.75" x 6". That means the tape would measure about 13.25 inches around, or close to the 14" you measured when you add in the wall thickness. The area of a right triagle is equal to the base (1.5) times height (5.75) divided by 2. All of that means the cross-sectional area of the opening is roughly (1.5' x 5.75")/2 or about 4.3 square inches. A round tube with 4.3" inches of cross-sectional area would measure just about 2.3" in diameter, which is pretty close to the 2.2 inches you measured for the round part of the snorkel. Crazy german engineers...
I defer to someone smarter as to whether triangle-shaped and circle-shaped openings flow the same amount of air if they have the same cross-sectional area. They didn't teach is that in geometry class...
The actual opening looks to be roughly the shape of a right triangle of about 1.5" x 5.75" x 6". That means the tape would measure about 13.25 inches around, or close to the 14" you measured when you add in the wall thickness. The area of a right triagle is equal to the base (1.5) times height (5.75) divided by 2. All of that means the cross-sectional area of the opening is roughly (1.5' x 5.75")/2 or about 4.3 square inches. A round tube with 4.3" inches of cross-sectional area would measure just about 2.3" in diameter, which is pretty close to the 2.2 inches you measured for the round part of the snorkel. Crazy german engineers...
I defer to someone smarter as to whether triangle-shaped and circle-shaped openings flow the same amount of air if they have the same cross-sectional area. They didn't teach is that in geometry class...
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#42
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The short answer is for a given circular opening to get the same flow in a non circular tube would require a larger area. A circle is the optimized shape for best flow. The shape of the factory triangular section is not ideal at all, just a compromise for packaging. The long answer is way to long to calculate.
#43
Three Wheelin'
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Okay I was drunk (really) when I measured the perimeter of the snorkel and equated it to to the area of a circle. I am an idiot and should turn in my engineering degree.
robstah, this is about the airbox/snorkel restriction with a stealth MAF already replacing the AFM.
robstah, this is about the airbox/snorkel restriction with a stealth MAF already replacing the AFM.
#44
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Kevin,
Please...have a drink (to motivate) and keep at it. I refuse to give up my "stock look" but am planning to go Rogue MAF.
I don't have a lot to bring to the table but if there is anything I can do to help...
I do have an extra snorkle and airbox?
Please...have a drink (to motivate) and keep at it. I refuse to give up my "stock look" but am planning to go Rogue MAF.
I don't have a lot to bring to the table but if there is anything I can do to help...
I do have an extra snorkle and airbox?