kevincnc

It looks like the 3" j-boot conversion I'm doing will fit fine, and with a black coupler & aluminum painted black, should be pretty well hidden. The first picture shows how it fits on the Vitesse Stage II turbo, I just need to weld on some some tubes to connect the hoses.

Without a larger snorkel though, I think the whole stealth effort would be a waste of time. So here's what I found out so far. The snorkel does have the potential to fit and look stock at 3" diameter. The second picture shows one that I slit open and roughly inserted 3" tubing with the end near the filter box flattened out. To get the tubing in I softened up the snorkel in the oven, and was surprised how formable it got. I expected a thermoset plastic, but it seems like it could be stretched pretty easily when hot. After cooling the snorkel held it's new shape just fine. I don't think my original plan of just fabrication a tube with the necessary bends and then filling in the gap with plastic or fiberglass will end up looking good enough.

Here is one way I think it could be done:
1) 3D Scan a snorkel to get a surface model.
2) Modify the model by increasing the diameter to at least 3" (maybe a little bigger)
3) Make a split mold with the increased size.
4) Heat and expand an existing snorkel inside the mold to the increase the size.

There are a few ways to heat the snorkel and expand it such as with hot air, and inflatable silicone bladder, etc. One potential challenge would be expanding it evenly so there aren't excessively thick and thin spots. That may take some experimenting will different methods of heating and expanding.

Worst case if it didn't work, the split mold could possibly be used to make 2 new halves and join them together.

So, does anyone have access to a 3D laser scanner to make a model of the stock snorkel? I could modify it, and probably even make the mold & do the rest. If there's enough interest I think it could be a viable aftermarket performance product. It might even be a worth-while upgrade for cars with stock turbos and minimal mods.

If anyone is interested in helping with development, a good start would be for me to try to expand a section of a snorkel inside a round tube. Does anyone have a junk snorkel they'd be willing to sacrifice?

If anyone would be interested in buying a finished product, I'd also need to know how many potential buyers there would be, and how much they'd be willing to pay since the cost of the mold would need to be covered.

Any interest, comments, or suggestions?

jasonlp

There's one big limiting factor, where the snorkel meets the airbox is the biggest restriction point in the airbox system. It's almost not worth it unless that bottleneck is delt with. As well as another minor one, the rubber hose that connects turbo to IC pipe it bottlenecks as well. I replaced it with this and had it thermal coated later on.



potential buyer =D

Thom

Great work Kevin.

I will be following this with interest.

Tom M'Guinn

Looks like you are doing your usual great work there. I've always thought there is still a market for big-mouth rubber J-boots with all the stock appearance and fittings. Just some uneducated food for thought on the snorkel: a 3" tube has a cross-sectional area of about 46 cm^2. That flat area where the snorkel attaches to the box, on the other hand, has a cross sectional area of about 36cm^2. (Back of envelope calculations.) To me, that suggest, if you have the clearance, that'd you'd want to find a way to open up the flat area as well. In stock mode, Porsche actually gave the flat area about 1.5 times the cross-sectional area of the tube (24 v. 36). I'm not a flow expert by any means, and assume there is more to it that cross-sectional area, but worth mulling over.

marcoturbo

Nice work Kevin.


I do agree with this.

Hope Patrick at CPR will see this thread...

Jeremy Himsel

You are still a very sick man. You need help.....seriously.

Own Goal

nice job. Will shortly have same problem since my turbo has a 3" intake. Was sort of wondering how to address this. Was also considering making some nice hard pipes for the intercooler. I was thinking about a different route though. We make laminates (glass mainly) using the European method ( high vacum and heat) versus the North American method of an autoclave. I was going through the supply catalog we use for stuff and noticed it was from an aerospace supply company. Seems same system used for composite laminates. It's different materials (carbon fiber etc.) but same method and supplies, same heat range and same vac level. I'd need to buy a "starter kit" for vacum resin deposition and could make about anything have a mold for. I've got a small test oven for doing just that, test; it's a converted range. The big convection oven is large enough to drive a car in but don't think that would be necessary. Just like you still working on what to use for the mold. Since basically vacume bagging the mold would need to be the form and the finished product the "skin". Then would need to loose the mold when done. Since heat range is about 250-275F leaves a lot of easy to work with material out. Any ideas?

kevincnc

Thanks for the input guys. Jeremy your encouragement is inspirational as always

Making a J-boot with 3" turbo end would be a similar process- scan a stock one, modify the model, mill out a split mold, make a core, cast the proper hardness of urethane, and there you have it. Even a $2k laser scanner would work, like this one featured on Jay Leno's garage- http://widgets.nbc.com/o/47f1317f105...a4377d3bfd6c81
We have a combo optical/laser/probe inspection machine at work that can produce 3D models, but it's not available for "playing with." Like I said I could modify the model with Solidworks, but drawing it from scratch would suck. BTW we also have a 3D printer like the one in the video, pretty cool stuff.

If only there were someone interested in making new products for the 951..someone who is a Rennlist sponsor and has already proven that he can make parts that people have been asking for. Someone with plastics experience, maybe even splitter and clear lens experience..

I agree that the cross-sectional area where the air enters the airbox will be the next biggest restriction, but opening up that relatively long run of 2" diameter to 3" should still help significantly. I don't see a way to open up the restriction where the snorkel meets the airbox but the worst part (about 5" from the entrance to the airbox ) can be opened up quite a bit. No matter what happens it will never flow as freely as a standard MAF with cone filter. There's still the smaller surface area of the stock filter, the 180 degree direction change with associated turbulence that the air has to make going through it, the 90+ degree bend in the j-boot, and the overall longer path for the air to wind through all that.
Own Goal- once there is a solid model of the part, the mold is easy to make. So I'll ask again, does anyone have access to a scanner to make a model?

Thom

In an ideal world I would fit an air intake in the hood just above the airbox and have a custom upper section made to replace the cover of the airbox.
That may look terrible though.

jasonlp

any updates?

gt37vgt

Come on Kevin patterns and dies were being made 100 years before laser voodoo nonsense .

get out your sand pit and big tray of plaster and get back to work ..

Its coming long nice how about another snorkel out the other side .?

APKhaos

This IS a problem worth solving.
Running stock class in PCA or NASA means the AFM inlet flange is the 'border' between stock and free. The airbox can be pitched. Trouble is that there is no way I can see to run a decent line anywhere that isn't immediately behind the radiator/intercooler. I've got a large K&N filter right on teh AFM flange, which is good for flow but not for anything but hot intake air from behind the radiator/intercooler.

I've looked at modifying the snorkel as Kevin is suggesting, but can't see a way to get around the intial restriction right at the airbox/snorkel junction. We need some inspired design!

RPHARRIS

^With the air filter behind the intercooler/radiator, I recorded sustained 160+ degree intake temps.

jasonlp

bump

kevincnc

Oh, I need to look at Rennlist more often. Someone told me we actually got a laser scanner here in Flag at one of our other buildings. I need to make the time to check it out. If not I may go with the sand pit and plaster