daigo

I road raced Hondas for over 15 years. Yes, the blocks are stronger, yes the heads flow better. It's hard to swallow but the Honda engines, as ricey as their reputation is, are incredibly engineered marvels. They were bullet proof throughout all the racing I did, and we pushed the hell out of those little engines.

gt37vgt

Ok disappointing to not see Dave or Chris white not here .
A deck plate is great but understand if your a tight **** and consider the pegs,as there is plenty of other spending to do i think the best solution is something in between like 1" long blocks or welds .
It is important to adress coolant flow after wards I know of one block being trashed by pegs blocking coolant the other option is doubling up on the pegs .

grout filling the lower cylinder has 2 benefits I have been told the the stiffening effect can be noticed while boring the block . the other thing is that when the piston dwells through BTC the rings transfer a fair but of heat to the bore if your filler is thermally conductive this may be helpful there are spash guards in the S2 blocks wich should stop it falling out or going bad from oil but i would still go for an oil proof one .

the other thing i have done wich may be a bit over the top but is more cost effective than race ware studs is i had half inch cromemolly 400mm long studs made i will then through drill the block and the studs will go from the girdle to the top of the head several other hardcore engines are like this so thats why i went that way .


crank scrapers widage trays and sump gates are all worth while .
a cost effective short cut for oil squirters is a notch on the side of the rod pionting upward as seen in BMW's .

also with the head if i lived in the US i would just take to my local nascar man and have him set it up with bigger thinner stemmed lighter valves and retainers .

thermal management and flow matching is important to other wise you are only ever tuning your leanest hottest bad est cylinder.
so equalizing flows and heats will pay off

Wormhole

At 40 PSI it is no more reliable then ST's 30+ psi pull. They both woud not last more then 30 minutes on the track.

95ONE

Hey John.

With Stoopid at the Hondata controlls in my (Brad's) old shop, (Autologic), I've learned not to naysay too much of anything. this feat does seem almost un-real, therefore doubt, but Like I said. I've seen some crazy things and try to keep an open mind.

Congrats and let them all Argue. Doesn't matter. Still should put a big smile on the owners face to let the loser know he just got beat by a 1.6 liter 4 cyl.

Jonptp

Thanks bro, and Jason is a good friend of mine he actually posted the dyno video up on houston imports for me.


Wormhole,

your right definately wouldn't survive a road course, but its a drag car so luckily I don't have that problem.


But back to the topic, we need to find a way to make "shape's" motor stronger so I can make more horsepower without it breaking

Jon

95ONE

Jon, give me a call (***) ***-****. - (you don't have a pm option)

333pg333

How much money do you want to spend making it stronger?

Chris White

I was reading and waiting for the noise level to drop a bit (and you post helped!!)
Lets start with the bottom end – filling in the area around the cylinders is very helpful – but I don’t like the term ‘grout’. The drag race guys have been using ‘grout’ for decades – but their main purpose is to fill in coolant passages. Our reason is to stiffen the block. Also, most of the ‘grout’ products are meant to be installed in the coolant envelope – not exposed to the crankcase.
The solution I use for race engines is a special structural epoxy that has a 0 expansion/contraction rate as it sets. The material alone for one block costs a little over $100 (there is a titanium based version for about 3 times that price!). You can really notice the added stiffness when you machine the block for sleeves.
Top side of the block – stiffening the top deck has two main methods, the MID sleeves and the deck plate. Both do the job and if the MID sleeve hadn’t been developed I would be in the deck plate camp. Keeping the head gasket functioning has a lot to do with the stability of the deck area and both products help.
Head studs, if your engine it tuned right these are not an issue (keep in mind I am answering this from a road racers view point – not a dyno competition!). The extra large studs are a interesting solution but a bit overkill for almost all applications.
The 3.0 block is a much stronger starting point for a build – even for the sleeves where we completely remove the cylinders. The reason is that the block floor – the area at the base of the cylinders – is higher up and stabilizes the cylinders better. If you are not using the MID sleeves then the Siamesing of the cylinders is a big plus.
Now about the comments about flow / design and what engine is better….
The 951 was and is a very efficient design for producing midrange torque – that’s what it was made for and that’s why it is a fast car out on the track (road course of course!). It was not designed for high rpm use and as such is not a great dyno engine – that’s why we don’t stack up well to the supra/Honda guys that are building dyno/drag queens. Do think a 1000hp 16v Porsche dyno queen engine could be built…yep. Will anybody pay for it? Nope, its not what our cars are about!

gt37vgt

i think the objective .....was tell me how to get an engine to hang together for a 900hp dyno run and hopefully it will hang together for a year of racing at 600hp
structural from Loctie Chris ?
100$ not alot compared with any other block work

ShApE

Thank you for the reply Chris, would you care to share what epoxy you use?

Chris White

Loctie product, I don't remembre the exact title, I will look it up in my shop if you want.
BTW - its also machinable when cured, good for various repairs!

gt37vgt

I hope to give you as useful advice at some times Chris but please don't look to me for spelling tips as you seem's you just did

ShApE

I looked on the loctite website and found these:

1.) does not shrink or expand
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/produ...id=49&plid=158

2.) this one says it's machinable, but does not mention if it shrinks or expands
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/produ...id=49&plid=159

either of these what you use?

Chris White

Spelling? Whats that?

Fishey

This is the problem I ran into on my nitrous motor. I streched stock headstuds and then pulled racewear studs out of the block. It seems to reason that that was the ending point in my development anyways since I didn't feel like going past a -4an line. Just out of curiousity what headstuds are currently out in a larger size?