spoolin51

Darwin,
How soon are we talking?

fast951

Yes a long block. I'll know the exact price next week, depending on what I have in it. I also have multiple S2 blocks and 3L cranks..

George D

Please use some of the folks that have done this successfully. There are many 3.0 motors, some from Porsche, running consistent hp and tq numbers with reasonable boost. I've been involved for over TEN years watching 3.0 proper motor builds being as reliable as the factory 2.5.

Porsche did this many years ago, and I've seen some of their motors at the track with non factory boost being sold to another 968 nut with many miles on the original track motor still in use today.

The 3.0 motor was scrivened by the folks at Porsche. Copy this, and you will have a reliable platform to modify utilizing better technology.

John is probably one of the few that can create this for you.

If you are going to spend the money on a big bore 4 banger, utilize proven technolgy.

We've seen too much otherwise.

Just my opinion.....

George

fast951

George, Thank you for the vote of confidence. At the moment, I have no plans to build engines (other than completing my own 3L engine). The 968 engine I'll have next week is a base engine to be used as a start for the conversion.
I believe Chris White will be doing the engine build for Darwin, Chris does nice work and the engine will be a success.

Chris White

lets see if I can answer some questions –
Why MID sleeves? – 3 reasons (actually more, but 3 main reasons).
First - The iron sleeves are incredibly strong and abrasion resistant. I had a customer that had a serious detonation problem (long story involving a bad oil seal in the turbo) and ran the engine on the track until all the rings were broken, large chunks of the pistons were missing and the head was completely trashed….but the cylinder walls were fine with just a hone job. I doubt that you can score these sleeves – the piston will die first.
Second – the MID flange add stability to the upper end of the engine block.
Third – no need for special alusil compatible coatings. This allows for a wide selection of piston designs.

8v vs 16v – always an interesting debate. Here are the highlights –
8v – better low end torque and flexibility. Less fussy build – fewer specialized parts. Lower cost. More developed ‘race’ parts
16v – higher power potential, more ‘curb’ appeal, engineering challenge.
Different tools for different jobs.

Other interesting tidbits – some folks like to focus on the factory effort – important to note that this was built to run in a horsepower limited racing class – they did not want high hp but low end torque, that’s why the 8v head was selected. If you look at the output specs of the 968 turbo you will see fairly low hp but a nice torque number.

George D

Know that I was a MID candidate. I'm just an old school guy. One that had a turbo S when PowerHaus was the scriviner of tuning. Cervelli was my mechanic, and installing Garrett GT was over 10K and worthy of the money.

I watched Chris spank in the unlimited division in his original 968 8V motor in his silver 86 track car. He installed the 968 six speed in his track car with a good motorsport LSD. Loved seeing him spank many cars with technology from the day.

My motor is similar to this spec sheet, with better pistons, better breathing head, better turbo, and much improved engine mangement.

Many of your customers help me with my car. Sean is one that has your software with his TIAL setup that is simply awesome. Love his car, but you know what it's like to take a well set up 3.0 to 7K with enough turo and fuel. V8's are envious. All of them.

I just know how much money it takes to make our cars one off and capable of speanking most of the new stuff that is modded.

I just would love to see more of the wet mid stuff posting similar reliability. I know that my motor with more boost would be at the top of this dyno list.

Know that when folks are considering what I've done, I feel that I should post and state my history and knowledge, no matter the result.

I've spend the money and know the results. This is my THIRD 951 that has been modified. I've spend enough to post and learn,

Regards,

George

George D

I purhases my stand alone TEC GT system from Chris. His harness is in my car, his entire system is on my car. His efforts towards our cars are perfection. My car wouldn't run without Chris's harness and Electromotive system.

I'm a satisified customer. Just would love to see more of the MID engine folks stating their success.

Know that I would be happy to hear of of the MID builds on this list.......I know that many are in the process of building.......I'm just one that would be truly happy of knowing that the MID stuff in our cars is kick *** technoogy.

Regards,

George

Chris White

MID sleeves are just like dry sleeving, Ni Chroming and Alusil overbores - if you do it right, it works, if you don't....well then it dosen't!
Sleeving has always had a questionable rep becasue just about every machine shop claims they can do it. Sleeving an iron block is pretty straight foward. Sleeving an aluminum block with a deck it just sligtly harder but still not rocket science. Sleeving a free standing cylinder....well thats a little tougher.
I have nothing against alusil bores - they are very long lasting for ring wear and given the right piston the tight fit is a nice feature, the only down side is how easy it is to score the cylinder with any contaimination.
Thanks for the nice comments George, I am happy to be associated with your project!

Darwantae951

Thanks for all the comments guys. Still unsure of what exact turbo to pick for this project. I'm talking to a few vendors.

Darwantae951

Update!

The block should be on its way to Chris right now. I'm actually going with a 106mm bore so looks like I'll have a 3.1L.

Turbo and cam will be Vitesse.

I'll also be upgrading to SFR Stg 2 headers so if anyone is interested in my current SFR Stg 1 headers and SFR 2 piece crossover pipe (both in 304SS) then shoot me a PM. Nothing will happen until November, but I can get a list and keep people updated.

spoolin51

^Get 'er Done!
That thing will be a beast...

Darwantae951

I hope so! Now I'm toying with the idea of weight savings...maybe AC delete? I don't drive the car THAT much and even in the summer I roll the windows down. I think I've only used the AC like 5 times?

Any other ideas to save weight would be appreciated!

spoolin51

^Yeah dude that's what I'm doing now. Light weight seats, ac delete , fiberglass hood, lighter wheels. It all adds up and you know as gt racing says lighter = faster

porshhhh951

One word ......DAMN!

FASTRNU

Thanks for all the great info guys.I pick up my 3.0 motor this week and I'm still researching and planning.Alot of great stuff here. I talked to Andial last week,they will have Mahle 104.5 in two weeks.I'm not sure yet,which way I'm going. I know I'm using the 2.7 head with S2 block,crank.