future

LOL eniac ... "Frog Legs", now thats the best discription I have ever heard for a T-Bar car

INURGRL951

Hey curtp what are you lookin to sell that tub if he doesn't buy it?? Im in the va beach area too and in need of a straight body myself.

Burma Shave

This damage is absolutely structural, far from just cosmetic. The alignment is definitely affected. For the floor to buckle that much there will likely be one or more kinks in the left rail. How are the door gaps? If the rail is kinked it will likely need to be "relieved" when pulls are made. To do this, the fuel tank and transaxle will need to come out. Another issue is that these cars are difficult to clamp/chain down to the rack as they don't have a pichweld along the rockers. For most cars we have special clamps for this situation, but nobody will have specialized clamps for a car this old. My car was damaged similarly but far less severely and the estimate to repair was over 10K. That was including parts at retail...frame and mechanical time was estimated at around 20 hours. A good frame guy will handle something like this no problem, the difficult part is finding someone who wants to...

Lorax

I don't know why you would need "Specialized clamps" to pull that car.

I'd say that car has a solid 8 hours of pull time on it, being generous. I can't see the car so I wouldnt want to under estimate.

Best thing you can do is just take it to a good shop and get an estimate for just the pull time. The problem is getting that shop to do a partial repair like that, but business is slow and some of those guys realy need work.

future

Ryan, you are part right in what you are saying but pulling/jigging a car is not quite that straight forwards. When a car becomes structually damaged/twisted you first need to cut away anything that would ease pulling hence the trunk floor would have to be removed first if the chassis leg is bent which I can guarantee it is on the side of impart. The wing on the same side would also have to be removed again before pulling.

If this car was simply bolted down to a jig and pulled as is there are 2 things which can go wrong:

1. The jugging will cause damage else where i.e. in the roof which is not as structually strong.
2. Without removing the trunk floor as a minimum then after pulling the chassis my simply shring back due to all the natural forces applied to it.

Metal unlike plastic doesn't have memory ... Once bent it's harder to straghten again. Plastic like a bumper you can simply apply heat and the memory in the material will in many case restore it's shape.

This is a re-shell job unfortunately and not worth the time messing about with. I'm sure a good shell can be had in the US for less than $500 USD and the parts swap over could be done in 2-4 days.

For the cost of a shell at $500 USD he could then get the entire car repainted and the finished job will be both alot cheaper than repairing, 100% straight so piece of mind and lastly after the paint job he will have one fantastic looking car and have it painted in the colour of his choice

Lorax

Jut looking at the pictures, A good body man could definitely pull that without removing the floor. Most of the pulling on any given car is done before a single panel is cut. The rest is just fine tuning in many cases. You could probably make it work.

If the chassis is pulled properly, it shouldn't shrink back down. The whole "Pull 2 inches to net 1 inch" idea (of course it's a bit more complex than that). I'm also not sure how putting the car on a frame machine would hurt the roof? the jig bolts on the bottom of the car.

Then again, I can't see the car so it's hard to tell how bad it really is...

Of course all that being said, unless you know someone who will help you out with this or have access to a good frame bench I agree that it's best to just find another shell, they grow on trees.



EDIT: I'm saying you could make it work in the sense that you could get the car back into alignment... not in the sense that you could make it look pretty.

future

The type of jigging you are referring to when other panels are not removed is normally done to crumple zones but this is a chassis leg so it affects the straightness of the car which has obviously twisted and damaging the rear quarter, trunk floor and probably the rear license panel if not more.

I have had many car's jigged and also done the work myself and unfortunately have just panged my 996TT in a similar way. My 996 TT is worth considerably more but is not worth repairing due to the strip down cost and the fact the chassis is damaged similar to this car (twisted).

Here is a link on the 968 board I posted which will illustratehow the job is done properly: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ht=damaged+968

You will clearly see that the damage is very minimal on the 968 car when looking at it but notice why they had to take the rear wing off even though it showed no sign of damage. Also check out the mounting/brace points used and the angle of the pull which is in 180 degrees reverse of the angle of impact.

This is the only real way of doing the job properly but yes mate you are right that anything (well almost anything) can be pulled if it is cost effective and you answered the question that 944 shells can be had for next to nothing and almost grow in trees

Burma Shave

You don't need "specialized clamps" to pull, you need them to hold the car in place while pulling. The labor I quoted was frame and mechanical to R&I parts for access. This was from a State Farm estimate for repairs completed in my own shop. The same problem with clamps is encountered on BMW's as well. That is one reason why BMW recommends the use of fixtures and jigs like those made by Celette. Most shops don't have specialized jigs for pulling because the cost isn't justifiable unless it is a specialty/dealer shop. Have a frame guy look under your car and tell you how he will clamp it down w/o damaging the car...whatever he tells you, when you leave he will likely use wood blocks. My point was that the shops that really need work right now may not be the ones you want to complete structural repairs on a track car.

Burma Shave

Btw, the jigs I'm referring to are model specific, not a common "frame rack".

Lorax

Surely some of the clamps that come with a modern Car-o-liner or other comparable machine can fit on a 944??

Van

I do know that in the 944 Body service manual, there is a section on the "proper" body jigs.

I'm positive I wouldn't be able to find anyone who has them...

I got to spend about an hour looking at it over lunch time. I think Future and Burma are onto something...

The inside of the right fender definitely moved over - you can see where my wheel rubbed against it. (The left side doesn't look like that.)



I started gluing threads to the suspension measuring points (outlined in the service manual) with fishing sinkers on one end. This way, I'll be able to mark the positions on the floor and take accurate measurements.



Hopefully, tonight after the kids are in bed, I'll actually be able to take some real measurements.

future

Wow Van never seen this happen before - Looks like you've got movement on both side

On a plus note you have some very nice bolt-on extras on your car mate - May be it's time you look at doing a 968 TRS replica if your engine and trans are strong Sorry to see this mate but new shell is the way forwards! You've started stripping the car down very quickly since you've not spent much time on it up to now so bite the bullet and re-shell and paint it to match that lovely Recaro 968CS bucket seat you have in there

Funds permitting go for a 968 though if you can find a tatty one for cheap to swap everything over to! You can only profit in the long run

DanR

Hey Van, keep my fingers crossed but you know if you need any helping hands mine are available. (even if it is only to make the tea)

Burma Shave

I'm with Future on the re-body idea. Lorax--I'm not saying the car can't be clamped down at all with generic equipment...for a hard hit like Van's though it will be difficult to tie it down sufficiently to make the proper pulls without causing more damage. Obviously I managed to straighten my car, but it only took a very light pull. I'm sure you're a very knowledgeable guy but you are out of your depth here. Van, sorry to go off topic here, just trying to help as this is my field. Van, you will come out $$ ahead with a better finished product if you re- body the car. My .02.

DanR

but then his silver rose would not be a real silver rose!!!!!