Ski

Can you not get 104 unleaded? That works really well.

kevincnc

Dude, first mistake is "asking the lady at the station"

Second mistake is assuming how the car is tuned. Tune it yourself.



Good luck.

pole position

Most gains will be made with agressive timing on race gas, boost is secondary. That , if you can manipulate the timing tables.

Rogue_Ant

I disagree. With higher octane increased boost will make more power then more timing, assuming the turbo isn't being pushed too hard. You can only make so much power by optimizing the burn (timing). However you can force in much more air/fuel.

In fact, next time I dyno - I'll do this little experiment. Want to bet on which method makes more power?


-Rogue

pole position

At elavated boost levels your Ph turbo will make a lot of hot air. Once the turbo is beyond its efficiency range gains will be made with timing not adding boost. Do you a have a real stand alone ? Hard to tell from your sig. Outdated 80's Motronic with 21 century enhancers will not do unless you are looking for 10 sec max hp boost spike charts. Also how experienced are you on the dyno ? Do you own one or can you use one at your leisure ? What brand ? Can you post a graph of your timing , second or third gear to redline ? Same for IAT's ?

Rogue_Ant

Yep, I know the limits of my current turbo. I will do this little test on my upcoming setup (GT35R). And to answer the rest of your condescending questions. No I don't have a stand-alone, don't need one either. I do not own a dyno, but have no problems taking some time on one. Yes I could post a graph of my timing. And yes I could post a graph of my IAT (post-turbo).

Most of my mods info is in my sig - since pretty much all of it is links.

Regardless if you want to stand by your statement or not. I will dyno boost vs timing.


-Rogue

333pg333

Seems a fair challenge. Worth it's own post I reckon.

Rogue_Ant

Agreed. I'll stop muddling the thread now


-Rogue

333pg333

Actually I think you should do a thread if you get some quantifiable data. Really anything that you find out with your mods will be worth a read. So GT35 huh? Nice. You still at 2.5L or is this on a new build? What specs on the Garrett?

Rogue_Ant

I will start a thread after I dyno, when the time comes

Still on a 2.5L - I'll see how far I can take this motor before I go big. And I think ST showed us that it can go pretty far.

Here is the exact turbo I'll be using:

GT35R

I'm plan on using the 4" Anti-Surge inlet and the K26 style turbine inlet .82 A/R option. With smaller alternator, aftermarket intake, and the Drain Flange Adapter that 95ONE used (thread here), it should require minimal mods to fit.


-Rogue

pole position

I don't sugar coat things, so if my questions ruffle your feathers ,sail on.

You made statements which contradict my real life findings, I still don't know if you have data logging capabilites in real time or not or if all your findings and theories are based on some future build.

In order to run the Gt35 for max hp you will have severe limitatons with boost due to your 8 valve head, that if you want to keep it together , unless you want to build a duplicate of your hero ST dyno queen.

Conclusion : 16 valve head for high boost and I don't consider 20-22 psi high boost plus , let me repeat myself again, once the turbo runs in its optimum efficiency range the biggest gains will be made ,with the addition of high octane race gas , with agressive ignition tables not cranking the boost. Fact not fiction.

BTW, you need a quality stand alone to achieve best results, the stone age Motronic ain't cutting it no matter what some vendors tell you . Now a ME7 or 8 is a completly different kettle of fish , easily on the same level or better than the most sophisicated stand alones.

toddk911

Then just throw in a gallon of Xylene and be done with it.

Unless the 102 is really cheap.

If you are at 18psi tune and want to run 20psi, the safe formula I use is 3 octane per 2 psi of boost increase. It is also in Maximum Boost but reversed 2 to 3 but I'd rather be extra safe especially in a hot, standstill dyno run. But over 25psi that formula needs to get extended.

So with 20 psi, assuming your tune is dead on for 18psi and your injectors are not maxed, you only need 99 octane to be safe.

Rogue_Ant

You don't ruffle my feathers. I simply continued along the precedent that you set with your arrogant post.

So you disagree with me, great. I disagree with you. And just as you claim to, I base my statements from real life findings and experience. With our small displacement motors - more air/fuel in the cylinder is key to making big power, period.

Thanks for "informing" me on what I already know. Oh and ST is my hero huh? The only thing of his I've duplicated is his MSD setup. I give credit where it is due, I don't sugar coat it.

Why the backpedaling, caveats and changing your statement now? Lets take a look at what you originally said:

But now, according to you, I need a different head to make power with timing? LOL, no I don't think so. Would a better flowing head improve power, sure. However we aren't debating head flow or design here. And now you throw in the ambiguous "optimum efficiency range". Care to quantify that? Here I'll help, how about the center island on the compressor map?



The most efficient island on the compressor map is anywhere from ~8 to ~21psi of boost and a flow difference of nearly 20lbs/min of airflow.

Sure a full-stand alone might be able to produce a little more power, and drivability. But I'm not going for the world record here, and for a fairly simple power comparison the Motronic w/ enhancers will do just fine. Hell you even said it yourself.



As I said, I will do a comparison on the dyno and post my results afterwards, regardless of the outcome.


-Rogue

Judson951

What did you say?????

I was also just messin around.. :P