USAA is low ballin, trying to total, any suggestions?
06-21-2008, 09:38 AM
#46
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You should just tell them to make the car the way it was before, or pony up the cash.
06-21-2008, 10:34 AM
#47
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:roflma o:6k! Now get the hell outta my court room!
06-21-2008, 01:25 PM
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Tone, I misunderstood. I thought you were asking for your insurance to pay.
If it's the other guy's insurance company, he is liable for whatever monetary damage he caused whether he hit a 71 Ford Pinto or an 09 Lexus.
AND you should not have to work for it, like take an amount of money and then have to part out the car (which takes a lot of time and effort).
But with insurance companies, often you have to work for every penny.
If you have the money laying around, which most of us don't, you could get a PCA estimate of market value, buy the most comparable car you can find at around that value, then sue his insurance company for that value..............but it requires time, effort, and money, which the insurance company knows and will use to their advantage.
If it's the other guy's insurance company, he is liable for whatever monetary damage he caused whether he hit a 71 Ford Pinto or an 09 Lexus.
AND you should not have to work for it, like take an amount of money and then have to part out the car (which takes a lot of time and effort).
But with insurance companies, often you have to work for every penny.
If you have the money laying around, which most of us don't, you could get a PCA estimate of market value, buy the most comparable car you can find at around that value, then sue his insurance company for that value..............but it requires time, effort, and money, which the insurance company knows and will use to their advantage.
06-21-2008, 01:55 PM
#50
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"If it's the other guy's insurance company, he is liable for whatever monetary damage he caused whether he hit a 71 Ford Pinto or an 09 Lexus".
yo, they're liable for the damage only, not replacement $$$$ for any bells and whistles/mods/upgrades that have been done.
pca estimate of market value after the fact?????
87951
95sl320
yo, they're liable for the damage only, not replacement $$$$ for any bells and whistles/mods/upgrades that have been done.
pca estimate of market value after the fact?????
87951
95sl320
06-21-2008, 04:53 PM
#51
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"If it's the other guy's insurance company, he is liable for whatever monetary damage he caused whether he hit a 71 Ford Pinto or an 09 Lexus".
yo, they're liable for the damage only, not replacement $$$$ for any bells and whistles/mods/upgrades that have been done.
pca estimate of market value after the fact?????
87951
95sl320
yo, they're liable for the damage only, not replacement $$$$ for any bells and whistles/mods/upgrades that have been done.
pca estimate of market value after the fact?????
87951
95sl320
For example for my 1988 951S, silver rose, 81K miles, all records, minor upgrades, it says exactly this (I'm typing verbatim)
Originally Posted by my PCA Valuation form
Obviously inappropriate cars, such as those described as "parts cars" or "'wrecked", are not recorded, further the highest and lowest of the price entries are deleted. the remaining price entries are then averaged and a normal statistical process is applied such that the high and low end of the price range is also determined. the high and low price limits do not contain all of the Porsches advertised, but include approx. 80% of all the cars. This price range is intended to relfect the spread of prices as a function of condition. while it is impossible to valuate a Porsche without seeing it, the average price and the extent of the price range, in conjunction with an on-site evaluation of the vehicle's actual (or prior, as in the case of an accident) condition can be used to establish a value of the car.
The following data is provided for your use:
Porsche Year/Model: 1988 944 Turbo S Coupe
Date of Valuation: May 2008
Number of data points: 33
Average Price Valuation: $17,580
Upper price range limit: $23,190
(approx 90% of all porsche values in this category can be expected to be below this number. the 10% above this value would be in exceedingly good condition, or true concours)
Lower price range limit: $11,970
(approx. 90% of all Porsche values in this category can be expected to be above this number. cars worth less would be in extremely poor condition)
Average price for 14-month period between 6 and 20 months prior to date: $17,060
The Porsche club of america beleives that the above valuation represents the fair market price of the particular model/year described, as demonstrated by the broad database, and is valid for purposes of insurance or insurance claims. The valuation committee serves only to record and report the market; the Committee does not provied the information for purposes of determination of sale prices, and thus does not of itself influence the market values of Porsche Automobiles.
The following data is provided for your use:
Porsche Year/Model: 1988 944 Turbo S Coupe
Date of Valuation: May 2008
Number of data points: 33
Average Price Valuation: $17,580
Upper price range limit: $23,190
(approx 90% of all porsche values in this category can be expected to be below this number. the 10% above this value would be in exceedingly good condition, or true concours)
Lower price range limit: $11,970
(approx. 90% of all Porsche values in this category can be expected to be above this number. cars worth less would be in extremely poor condition)
Average price for 14-month period between 6 and 20 months prior to date: $17,060
The Porsche club of america beleives that the above valuation represents the fair market price of the particular model/year described, as demonstrated by the broad database, and is valid for purposes of insurance or insurance claims. The valuation committee serves only to record and report the market; the Committee does not provied the information for purposes of determination of sale prices, and thus does not of itself influence the market values of Porsche Automobiles.
06-21-2008, 05:02 PM
#52
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"If it's the other guy's insurance company, he is liable for whatever monetary damage he caused whether he hit a 71 Ford Pinto or an 09 Lexus".
yo, they're liable for the damage only, not replacement $$$$ for any bells and whistles/mods/upgrades that have been done.
pca estimate of market value after the fact?????
yo, they're liable for the damage only, not replacement $$$$ for any bells and whistles/mods/upgrades that have been done.
pca estimate of market value after the fact?????
If bells were damaged, pay for bells and the same for whistles.
You are saying that if they detroy fuchs they only have to pay you for phone dials, that if they destroy big reds they pay for standards, if a high end stereo is destroyed they only have to pay you for stock antiquated cheap one?
Hmmmm. Seems like the fair thing would be to PAY FOR WHAT WAS DAMAGED as I said.
I do understand and appreciate the fact that adding up the receipts for a car will total a higher amount than it's actual value in most cases.
PCA comment: Not sure what you are questioning. If you are asking if I would ask the PCA to appraise it as a wrecked car, that makes no sense, unless you are trying to determine a salvage value.
If you are suggesting that the value and damage of a car are typically determined prior to someone having an accident, that's incorrect.
Value and damage estimates are almost always done after the fact, just as the insurance company is doing. The wreck happened, they come out, and tell you what they think it's worth.
The main reason there are disputes is that damage and value are determined after the fact in 99% of all cases. If they were determined in advance or are easy to determine after the fact, there is less likely a dispute.
Drive a car off the lot and someone totals it that day is way easier than a 20 year old restored or modded 951.
If Tone had an estimate for agreed coverage and had a policy for that amount, he would have a pretty GOOD CASE, simply "my car is worth $xxxx, that's what I have it insured for, and that's all i will accept."
Or, if he would have bought the car recently already modded and had paid, $xxxx, he would have a good case.
Problem is as stated above, a list of receipts for mods rarely translates into the same value. (A $1500 stereo system does not increase the value $1500, etc)
Since there is no agreed value or recent sale (in the price range he is seeking), he would get the estimate 'after the fact' just as the insurance company is doing.
They are stating their value of the car and I would counter it with the PCA estimate.
The reason I would consider the PCA over a private apprasier is I think the insurance company might take them more seriously and take the value more seriously, and be less suspecting that it was inflated by a private appraiser.
The PCA will value a given car at what they think the market is. Given the records, photos, and mods that tone likely has, they will come up with a value.
Hope it all works out...............
06-21-2008, 05:55 PM
#53
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If bells were damaged, pay for bells and the same for whistles.
You are saying that if they detroy fuchs they only have to pay you for phone dials, that if they destroy big reds they pay for standards, if a high end stereo is destroyed they only have to pay you for stock antiquated cheap one?
Hmmmm. Seems like the fair thing would be to PAY FOR WHAT WAS DAMAGED as I said.
I do understand and appreciate the fact that adding up the receipts for a car will total a higher amount than it's actual value in most cases.
PCA comment: Not sure what you are questioning. If you are asking if I would ask the PCA to appraise it as a wrecked car, that makes no sense, unless you are trying to determine a salvage value.
If you are suggesting that the value and damage of a car are typically determined prior to someone having an accident, that's incorrect.
Value and damage estimates are almost always done after the fact, just as the insurance company is doing. The wreck happened, they come out, and tell you what they think it's worth.
The main reason there are disputes is that damage and value are determined after the fact in 99% of all cases. If they were determined in advance or are easy to determine after the fact, there is less likely a dispute.
Drive a car off the lot and someone totals it that day is way easier than a 20 year old restored or modded 951.
If Tone had an estimate for agreed coverage and had a policy for that amount, he would have a pretty GOOD CASE, simply "my car is worth $xxxx, that's what I have it insured for, and that's all i will accept."
Or, if he would have bought the car recently already modded and had paid, $xxxx, he would have a good case.
Problem is as stated above, a list of receipts for mods rarely translates into the same value. (A $1500 stereo system does not increase the value $1500, etc)
Since there is no agreed value or recent sale (in the price range he is seeking), he would get the estimate 'after the fact' just as the insurance company is doing.
They are stating their value of the car and I would counter it with the PCA estimate.
The reason I would consider the PCA over a private apprasier is I think the insurance company might take them more seriously and take the value more seriously, and be less suspecting that it was inflated by a private appraiser.
The PCA will value a given car at what they think the market is. Given the records, photos, and mods that tone likely has, they will come up with a value.
Hope it all works out...............
You are saying that if they detroy fuchs they only have to pay you for phone dials, that if they destroy big reds they pay for standards, if a high end stereo is destroyed they only have to pay you for stock antiquated cheap one?
Hmmmm. Seems like the fair thing would be to PAY FOR WHAT WAS DAMAGED as I said.
I do understand and appreciate the fact that adding up the receipts for a car will total a higher amount than it's actual value in most cases.
PCA comment: Not sure what you are questioning. If you are asking if I would ask the PCA to appraise it as a wrecked car, that makes no sense, unless you are trying to determine a salvage value.
If you are suggesting that the value and damage of a car are typically determined prior to someone having an accident, that's incorrect.
Value and damage estimates are almost always done after the fact, just as the insurance company is doing. The wreck happened, they come out, and tell you what they think it's worth.
The main reason there are disputes is that damage and value are determined after the fact in 99% of all cases. If they were determined in advance or are easy to determine after the fact, there is less likely a dispute.
Drive a car off the lot and someone totals it that day is way easier than a 20 year old restored or modded 951.
If Tone had an estimate for agreed coverage and had a policy for that amount, he would have a pretty GOOD CASE, simply "my car is worth $xxxx, that's what I have it insured for, and that's all i will accept."
Or, if he would have bought the car recently already modded and had paid, $xxxx, he would have a good case.
Problem is as stated above, a list of receipts for mods rarely translates into the same value. (A $1500 stereo system does not increase the value $1500, etc)
Since there is no agreed value or recent sale (in the price range he is seeking), he would get the estimate 'after the fact' just as the insurance company is doing.
They are stating their value of the car and I would counter it with the PCA estimate.
The reason I would consider the PCA over a private apprasier is I think the insurance company might take them more seriously and take the value more seriously, and be less suspecting that it was inflated by a private appraiser.
The PCA will value a given car at what they think the market is. Given the records, photos, and mods that tone likely has, they will come up with a value.
Hope it all works out...............
06-22-2008, 06:07 AM
#54
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your write,they will replace with something that will pass dot standards,hence why insurance companies sign contracts with body shops to basically do substandard repairs with non oem parts etc.I'm telling your wasting your time trying to get 10k.You'll tie up more money in fees and time than your going to get.6k isnt top dollar but VERY resonable for a 22 year old car with 200k in an insurance eyes.I could see if it was a low mileage example but they just arent going to pay 150+ percent of actual book value.I mean i understand where your coming from but some one whos outside the car business always thinks their car is worth more than it actually is.Also i mean no disrespect but thats just how it goes.I'd def try to work them for more than 6k but as far as taking it to a judge I think you'll be on the losing end of that deal.Best of luck if all else fails take your car and 6k cash and part it out
06-22-2008, 12:00 PM
#55
Just like selling guides, most insurance companies don't take into consideration the amount of modifications put into the car. They just don't care about that, all they care about is parts that come directly from Porsche, or the cheapest OEM equivalent.
The only plus side to this is:
If you got rear-ended and it destroyed your new SFR Exhaust system, chances are that Porsche's OEM exhaust costs more.
Your used big Reds got destroyed, I'm sure the money you'll get for a new set of small blacks will pay for another set of used Big Reds with some change.
06-22-2008, 01:25 PM
#56
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having been thru this process before, insurance companies do try to lowball you sometimes and can fight them. however, after reading the details it sounds like you were majorly ripped off when you bought the car, a professional appraiser will not appraise it at 10k. i tend to agree with ehall's comments on what a judge would say.
06-22-2008, 05:00 PM
#57
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Thread Starter
Well, a professional appraiser has valued it at 14 and some change. Im in the process of getting a pca evaluation. And again, the lawyer is costing me nothing. And by the way Lee, Ive offered for them to make it what it was before, and they refuse! The estimate was 6k, they wont budge past 6k/plus buy back. Basically they are giving me the estimate plus buy back. And the shop who is doing it was my choice, not the ins, and I know theyll do it right.
06-22-2008, 07:47 PM
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It is the comanpany's duty to repair or replace with like kind of contruction and materials, not lesser kind of material and construction.
If you are at fault you are obligated replace what you damaged; if you run into a $4000 etched glass window in a shoe shop, you are obligated to replace it regardless of what was there originally.
If you have insurance to cover you, you are insured against that liability and they are required to pay for the damage.
In general they pay for like kind repair/replacement at 100%. So if you get a front end damage and a fuch is totaled and a dent, they pay 100% , replace fuch for fuch, and do not depreciate a repair.
(you never hear the insurance company say, "you have a $2000 dent, we are going to give you $1000 because your car is old and that is the depreciated value"
They always depreciate a TOTAL replacement, so they are inclined to want to total your car and use a low value figure to base that on... if they get a chance to.
(you ALWAYS here the company say, "you have a $30,000 car which is totalled, but we are going to give you $10,000 because your car is old and that is the depriciated value."
08-01-2008, 09:34 PM
#59
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Did you resolve this?
I am currently working with a private appraiser to get a settlement following my accident.
My understanding is that you have a RIGHT to an independent appraisal. Once you exercise this right the insurance company will get itself an independent appraisal. The appraisers for both parties then must compromise to reach a final price. If they cannot then you will have to pay for an umpire who will make a final decision.
Hope this was successfully resolved.
I am currently working with a private appraiser to get a settlement following my accident.
My understanding is that you have a RIGHT to an independent appraisal. Once you exercise this right the insurance company will get itself an independent appraisal. The appraisers for both parties then must compromise to reach a final price. If they cannot then you will have to pay for an umpire who will make a final decision.
Hope this was successfully resolved.
08-01-2008, 11:21 PM
#60
Drifting
Thread Starter
Still pending settlement. PCA's evaluation was about on par with the appraiser. We have a court date in Dec. I believe. Regardless of mileage the car was worth more than 6k. Ive seen cars go for more than 7k here on rennlist, that were not as clean as my 87' was. Had a few stone chips, cracked dash(no such thing as an original dash in phoenix thats not cracked!!) And a recent tear in the driver seat, all flaws were scheduled to be fixed in the next couple weeks, but.....