Gator_86_951

OK, so I have read just about every thread I could find or stand to read on this subject and I just wanted to clarify a few things before I go and order the stuff I will be using for my suspension.

Rear Coil-Over Shock Adapters:
The shocks come with the correct offset so that they hook up to the factory mounting points just fine. However, it seems some people have had deformation of the mounting adapters on the shocks (see Van's picture) https://rennlist.com/forums/showpost...15&postcount=1. Also, since the mounting adapters are a rubber bushing there is probably some pre-load through the rubber.

So, I guess people have both the bottom and the top converted to solid mounting adapters. I saw somewhere that this could be done by Bilstein and I would let them do it because I don't want to heat up the shock body. I believe the conversion is to a 1/2 adapter. I know that Racer's Edge sells the lower shock mounting bolt for the correct offset, what do people use if they change the adapter on the top, or do you need to use anything? Do I need to enlarge the upper mounting hole? Is this conversion recommended? I already have a set of rear 580 valved (the highest one) rear shocks.

Running without T/Bars:
I know this seems to have been covered quite a few times, but I seem to recall there being some question as to whether there would be a problem with the trailing arm mounts without the T-bars. This doesn't seem to be something I need to worry about, and I don't think there is a solution to this supposed potential problem anyhow. Anything?

Spring Rates / Valving:
This I am thoroughly confused on but I think I would leave the valving as they come and then use suggested spring rates from some of the other threads. As I said, I already have a set of rear shocks so I only need the front struts. This is going to be my DE only car. I imagine I can actively avoid pot-holes if I need to.

Spring Length and Helper Springs:
This is something I was not able to find a good consensus on. Also, I am not sure how this relates to my choice of camber plates. What spring lengths do I need. Presumably, you get a shorter spring rate and then use a "helper" spring with a lower spring rate for when you lift the car. Alternatively, I guess you could just be real careful when you lower the car so that the spring sits in the cup properly.

Camber Plates:
Seems like the best current option are the Racer's Edge plates. Are there are there any others that have similar quality? In retrospect, I wish I had gotten a pair of dynatech plates before, but I didn't.

Bushing Replacement:
I was thinking about replacing the Bannana arm bushings as well as the torsion tube bushings.

Basically I already have the correct rear shocks and I will need to buy front struts, two sets of springs, and then address any of the conversion problems and associated hardware.

I think that sums it up. Thanks in advance for any help.

Van

I think you're pretty much on the money. I had Bilstein do the solid 1/2" bushings on my shocks - they did a nice job and I don't recall it being that much money. The Racer's Edge lower mounts work well. For the upper mount, I used a 1/2" reamer in a 1/2" chuck drill to open up the holes a little bit - then used a 1/2" bolt.

I tried to use a 1/2" drill bit, but I couldn't get it started squarly... The reamer worked like a dream.

You'll need to run 2.25" diameter springs on those rear shocks - I'd have to measure the spring length, but I seem to recall an 8" long spring works well...

If you're going to use solid bushings on the shocks, you absolutely should use solid bushings for the control arm and spring plate. I've had very good luck with the Elephant Racing ones. It is my opinion that you can safely remove the torsion bars regardless of what spring plate bushings you have.

For the shock valving, I told Bilstein, "this is my car weight, these are my spring values, this is the type of racing I'll be doing." They did the valving accordingly and I've been happy with the setup.


Good luck with your build!

Gator_86_951

Van, thanks so much for the responses. Incidentally, as it is probably obvious from my first post, I got a lot of the information from your informative threads! I think for now, having talked with the guy I am building the car with, we are going to keep the existing rear adapters and wait to have them valved and changed by bilstein (front and back) once I have had a chance to use them and can get the spring rate I really want. Jeez, at this rate with the car effectively dead since before the start of law school I just want one DE season!

I have done some research on what is available in terms of rear suspension bushings. This is what I have found.

Racer's Edge Bannana Arm Solid Bushing: $320/set
Elephant Racing Trailing Arm Monoball = $295/set
Racer's Edge Bannana Arm Delrin (Shown Only at Paragon) = $160/set

Racer's Edge Inner and Outer Spring Plate Delrin = $170/set
Elephant Racing Spring Plate Bearings = $315/set
Weltmeister Inner and Outer Poly Bushing = ~$64/set

Racer's Edge Torsion Tube Carrier Solid Bushings = $129/set
Racer's Edge Torsion Tube Carrier Delrin Bushings (Shown at Paragon Only) = $128/set
Weltmeister Torsion Tube Bushings = ~$45/set

Did I correctly pair all of these bushings up?

I have never had the rear suspension apart, or even looked at it more than momentarily to install standard koni yellows. Which of these is the most critical to spend the money on? There aren't a whole lot threads on these. I would hazard to guess, but since I have never even seen the thing up close I have no idea.

Sorry for so much crutch leaning, but I really have a lot on my plate and I have to finish the car before I move to start work in April.

Any help on this part would be appreciated. I think I might call both elephant racing and RE tomorrow if I get a chance. I think the RE camber plates were in my future anyways based on what I have read Re: the other available alternatives.

Van

The question is primarily what level of "solid" do you want and what do you want to spend?

Level 1 - the cheapest: stock rubber
Level 2: Weltmeister uerothane bushings
Level 3: Delrin bushings (primarily from RE)
Level 4 - the most expensive: Monoball bushings and aluminum torsion tube carriers (primarily from ER)

To just get you out to a DE, any will work!

In my thread about installing the ER monoballs, I use the RE aluminum torsion tube carriers and the spring plate/banana arm bushings from ER. I made my own upper torsion tube mount with a little welding. I did a similar thing to make the front caster mounts, too.

Gator_86_951

I agree with you Van and I would be getting the weltmeister bushings as I have a good source for them.

My other question though is that there isn't a stock or even weltmeister alternative for the bannana / trailing arm bushing. Is derlin a good material for this application, and is anybody running them? I don't really car about the squeaking.

SamGrant951

FWIW, Ive heard the Weltmeister inner/outer bushings were noisy..I installed Delrin and zero noise thus far.

Gator_86_951

Fair enough. Thanks for the real world assessment.

Did you replace the trailing arm bushings and the torsion tube carrier bushings on both carriers?

SamGrant951

No I did not...after reading lots of threads and talking with people I replaced just that bushing when I deleted the t-bars. From what I read it seemed to be the most important. Im going to see how it feels on track and adjust from there - its prob ok In my case since its mainly street.

tconn

I use the Delrin torsion tube bushings, they are quiet and I've had no problems wiht them so far.

Are the Racers Edge front and rear control arm bushings sealed, if not are they a good choice for street/de applications?

ehall

All that I will add is that I feel a T-Bar delte suspension should have the ER spring plate bushings or something equivalent. It's a bit of a PITA for a DIY job, but it isn't complicated.
My preference would be ER. They can be greased and re-greased.

Nader Fotouhi

I had the spherical bearings done locally, but I recommend sending it to Bilstein. They disassemble the shocks, cut both ends and re-weld sphericals. If you know what spring rates you want, you could give them the spec and ask to re-valve and it should be good for at least a couple of years depnding on the use.

You can use 2.5x8 or 9 front and 2.25X8 or 9 rear. If you do not want the springs to drop when on the jack, then get helpes to dold them in place.

I run the car in stock class which does not allow adjustable camber plate, so I bought spherical upper mounts from KLA for about $145. I still get -2.5 to -3.0 cabmer with no problems.

If you remove the torsion bars, you will should enlarge the top mount hole to 1/2". It is a slow process.

Good luck.

Van

With a 2.25" DIA spring on the front, you can run a 9" wide front wheel. I don't think you can with a 2.5" spring.

ehall

Which struts allow for a 2.25 dia front spring? I know the won't fit my bilsteins.

blodstrupmoen

9" cup 1 w/ET47 = No problem with 2,5" springs and -2 negative ..

Van

I'm running the 9" turbo S rims on the front - I think they have a 55mm offset (so it would put the inner lip closer to the spring).

Ehall, I use the 2.25" springs on my bilsteins (with 2.25" perches, or course).